upgrading fuel system in my 51 ford ???

R

Rollingmenace

Member
Long first post my 51 is finally here and my first order of buisness is the fuel system... the fuel in the tank is really old.. lines are suspect want to test sender ect ect..
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Asteticly id like to keep the look under the hood vintage with the modern hot rod goodies..
Im basically going to pull and clean tank, test sender and replace everything carb, lines, filter, pump and sender if needed
im planning on rewiring entire car with a 12 v conversion but ill leave that for another time...
i had a few questions and would like some opinions

#1 as far as the stock fuel pump on the car the eventual plan will be an electric pump but untill the wiring deal i want to run my stock mechanical once switched over to electric would you guys recomend just ditching the stock unit or will it be better to run it in conjuction im trying to avoid any heat transfer and vapor lock issues

#2 if i remove the stock pump is there a blockoff kit that can work for it... ive seen ones up to 1950 but really nothing for the 51 (are they the same)

#3 will removing pump have any affects on how the engine runs..(i recall something being said about the mechanical load the pump has on the engine)

#4 lines im planning on aluminum. gone right and rubber to isolate. any thoughts?? i believe they have been replaced at one time im thinking there copper in there now

#5 electric pump im planning on just a universal pump im thinking on frame rail as close to tank as i can .. my brother seems to think it needs to be closer to the carb.. what are your thoughts

#6 filter and regulator. as far as regulator should it be closest as possible to electric pump or is under the hood fine.. and my filter im looking at either a canister style or a billet style both with changable elements..do you think regulator with filter mounted on firewall possibly with a little fuel pressure guage would look ok

Thats enough for now any opinions or advice would be appreciated
 
Nice '51.
Mechanical pump in good condition, will work fine. My '49 in the avitar has a stock pump, and no problems. The ethanol gas is detrimental to the life of the rubber
components. Charlie NY and Ken CT on this board can rebuild the stock pump to live
in an ethanol world.
Check the rubber hose that connects from the pump to the hard line at the firewall.
Take it to a industrial hose shop in your area, and they will make you a replacement
with hose that will work with ethanol.
Remove the tank and either you clean it (search on this forum) or take to a radiator
shop for cleaning. If the exisiting line are OK, then use them.
Use an in line filter on the driver side -left side back near the tank. Mount it along
the frame rail. Fram, Napa, etc., have the in line filter you need.
 
1 - Removal of the stock pump from the system will improve your heat transfer situation considerably. Blockoff plates are available from suppliers, but the removal of the pump pushrod will lower your oil pressure, not a good thing.

2 - The same blockoff plate will work for your '51.

3 - No measurable benefit.

4 - Fuel lines should never be copper, aluminum, or rubber. Stainless steel is difficult to work with, but is otherwise superior. Flex line should be alcohol resistant.

5 - Close to tank.

6 - Filter before the pump. Regulator after the pump.
 
ford38v8 said:
1 - Removal of the stock pump from the system will improve your heat transfer situation considerably. Blockoff plates are available from suppliers, but the removal of the pump pushrod will lower your oil pressure, not a good thing.

2 - The same blockoff plate will work for your '51.

3 - No measurable benefit.

4 - Fuel lines should never be copper, aluminum, or rubber. Stainless steel is difficult to work with, but is otherwise superior. Flex line should be alcohol resistant.

5 - Close to tank.

6 - Filter before the pump. Regulator after the pump.
Click to expand...

Agree with all of the above, but I would use a filter before the pump close to the tank and one under the hood. Use clear plastic or glass ones that you can see any contamination starting to accumulate. Also, a pressure regulator is absolutely mandatory set at 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 PSI. Use a fuel conditioner for ethanol fuel such as Sta-Bil or Lucas marine treatment that is specifically for ethanol laced gas. I know removing the fuel pump rod will lower the fuel pressure, but
1. there is a bushing available that someone on here will have a P/N for and
2. I don't have that bushing in my flathead and it idles in hot Fl summer weather at 10 PSI and run down the road at 50 - 60 PSI.
 
Thanks guys.. she looks pretty good in the pics as I get closer I notice the flaws but that will all come in time.. as she is now she runs and drives but last july when I was driving in Ohio I was having some minor fuel issues.. now that the car is with me in Colorado its time to get it reliable.. I want to start with fuel system.. so far today I think I have everything I need ordered at this point..
freshly rebuilt Stromberg 97.. all stainless 3/8 line with new stainless clips.. electric fuel pump to use once I do the 12v conversion.. new canister style filter, regulator and fuel pressure guage for under the hood.. s/s braided line and all the fitting to hook everything up.. it adds up im about 350 into the fuel system but I want to ensure reliability looks and function... im kinda shying away from the stock look to a more modernized hotrod look under the hood..
im going to keep the stock pump in conjunction with the electric for now don't want to take the risk of sacrificing oil pressure im hoping to go from to Colorado to Vegas and back in this car in the spring time..
eventually I want to run a offy intake w 2 97's but that will come later once the fuel system is in then its time for a 12v system and full rewire.. I love the 6v but its like driving down the road at night with two dim Maglites
 
You mentioned a 97 carb but didn't mention about your distributor. Since you have no carb vacuum port you will need provision for timing advance. Maybe you already have that covered.
 
40cpe^^^
I must have misunderstood I was under the impression that the the original 97's would work with the old vac advance distributor.. or did i totrally miss that .. can they be drilled to install a vacumn port
im planning on running a bubbas distributor with mechanical advance on the car along w the 12v conversion ill order the stuff in next few days was hoping to complete the fuel system upgrade and be able to drive it first
 
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I would check my grounds on the dim headlights. My 41 is 6 volt and its just as bright driving down the road as anything else. The only difference you should see is at idle. Maybe do the rewire with stock style wiring harness and see how it works. If your not happy the 6 volt harness will more than handle the 12 volts.
 
Rollingmenace said:
.. ...I love the 6v but its like driving down the road at night with two dim Maglites
Click to expand...

Regarding the "two dim maglights", ...From your picture, you have headlights with mirror shades over the top half, a fad item that was popular years ago for some unknown reason... Get rid of those and get some standard sealed beam units, and you'll improve your lights dramatically, and maybe in the process avoid a ticket, as they are illegal in many places.
 
How funny^^^ I took off the chrome covers on headlights today ... It could be a ground issue with the lights ... But after really digging in to this thing today in some spots the factory harness is in great shape for its age and in some places I'm surprised it hasn't melted down...... Plus if I put in a new harness I won't have to worry about someone else's wiring handy work.. and from crawling around under the dash today the previous statement is giving way to much credit to the guy that put it together originally ... I did find a bunch of receipts for when he bought the car in 2002 and the work done to it
 
Rollingmenace said:
.. I love the 6v but its like driving down the road at night with two dim Maglites
Click to expand...

First wiring Job should be to check all your ground conections,( CLEAN & TIGHT )
Make sure the ground wire & wire from Batt. to solenoid & then solenoid to starter is of propper size that some one did not put on smaller cables that are sutable for 12v but not 6v
Cables should look like goold old welding cables.

With a little attention to these few things it may get you to see How well 6v realy is.

I am not being smart here but remember it is POS. GROUND.....
 
Rollingmenace said:
40cpe^^^
I must have misunderstood I was under the impression that the the original 97's would work with the old vac advance distributor.. or did i totrally miss that .. can they be drilled to install a vacumn port
im planning on running a bubbas distributor with mechanical advance on the car along w the 12v conversion ill order the stuff in next few days was hoping to complete the fuel system upgrade and be able to drive it first
Click to expand...

The original carb for your car was a 94 that had a vacuum port. I don't know if a 97 can be modified. If you have a centrifugal distributor you should be OK.
 
Well I bought the rebuild kit for the 94 as it's leaking everywhere ... I figure I should be able to rebuild it .. in the green bible it looks simple enough.... I build and work on vintage motorcycles and have built many motorcycle carbs... I'll try my luck at the 94 and see how it turns out never know I may just run it until I switch to the 2+2 intake and dual 97's.. Once the rebuild kit gets here I'll pull it disassemble and throw it in the ultrasonic cleaner....
 
If you are running one of Bubba's dist. you shouldn't need the vac. line
As advised contact Ken CT for fuel pump/carb info. Another good source for 94 info is Eric at gocatspeedshop.com You will enjoy his web site and all the rebuilt running flatty video clips.
As I recall when I removed my old fuel pump rod I tapped and plugged the rod hole in the block (Fran Oddo, "Ford Flathead V-8 Builders Handbook, pg84). My 239 with dual 94's and a Howard M-6 cam runs an oil pressure of 70+ cold and 35-40 hot.
Enjoy your project and no matter how dumbfounded you may feel tap into the wisdom of the folks on this forum. They will walk you through the head scratching adventures.
 
Chap^^^ thanks for the advice .. I haven't bought the bubba's dizzy yet.. But I'll order it by beginning of next week along with all the other stuff needed for the 12v conversion.. It's gonna be like Christmas here for the next few months .. But as you can tell by my first post I'm not afraid to ask questions... This is my first experience working on something this old... But I've worked on a lot of 70's through 90's stuff from race cars , to muscle cars , and even rock crawlers... Not to mention my collection of vintage atc's motorcycles and quads...I just like hearing everybody's opinions and advice... I just want to make sure I'm not missing anything and the job is done right... So far everyone here has been really helpful
 
You can leave the stock pump in place and just bypass it. If you want to remove it, all flathead block off plates are the same.

Your stock distributor uses venturi vacuum from the 94 carb for advance. Manifold vacuum won't work (actually works backwards). Lots of guys say they run fine without vacuum advance, but I'd recommend a new distributor with either a mechanical advance, manifold vacuum advance, or both.

Most electric fuel pumps are designed to push, not pull. You need to get the pump as close to the tank and as low as possible. One exception is a Facet brand cylinder ******** pump. It can lift and pull fuel, but it makes a bit of noise.

I'd run plain galvanized or coated steel lines. Stainless is harder to shape and flare, nobody is going to see them, and I don't care if they rust in 60 years like the originals did.

The regulator should be in the engine compartment where you can reach it for adjustment. You should also get a small pressure gauge.
 
Another thought is that you will need a fuel pressure regulator. Run it about 2#'s.
12volt conversion. Apparently your looking at a complete rewire. Might want to check out RonFrancis.com a little spendy, but an "everything labeled" rewire kit.
 
Ok here's a little update I got the 94 rebuilt and cleaned up
FFA24E2A-8E84-4B9E-84A2-699EE8146FBD.jpg


Also mounted the filter and regulator in its final spot... The reg will come off until the electric pump is hooked up... Also ran the 3/8 stainless line to tank and installed the pump....
90097275-29C1-4F16-81C1-91D545608D13.jpg


Here's a pic of carb installed and hooked to mechanical pump
E7E10639-AEFF-47B5-A986-64716F8D903C_1.jpg


Dropped the tank tonight will hit inside with power washer tomorrow or Wednesday and get it cleaned out.... Sender float was full of gas just one more thing that will be replaced....
 
Rollingmenace said:
40cpe^^^
I must have misunderstood I was under the impression that the the original 97's would work with the old vac advance distributor.. or did i totrally miss that .. can they be drilled to install a vacumn port
im planning on running a bubbas distributor with mechanical advance on the car along w the 12v conversion ill order the stuff in next few days was hoping to complete the fuel system upgrade and be able to drive it first
Click to expand...
NO I would not drill the 97 for a vacume port.97 isn't correct for a 51 anyway. 8BA is correct and has the venturie port for the stock dist.Its not like manifold vacume. ken ct.
 
Nice job.

Here's my $0.02 that you didn't ask for: Ditch the anodized AN fittings and the braided hose, the blue wire loom and the yellow plug wires. To me, it looks like Pep Boys under that hood.
 
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