Spark question

[edhd58]

Is it possible to have spark when starter motor cranking an engine but it not be enough spark to start the motor?

This damn 226 G has quit again.

I have pulled the head to make sure the cam and crank are in time, they are.
I have fuel to the carb so that the accelerator pump will squirt fuel, and I have had the carb back apart to try to be certain all the passages are open. Everywhere I've squirted cleaner it has shot out another hole somewhere else on the carb. The tops of the piston are getting black like its not burning all the fuel (too rich or not enuf spark?)
The float level has been raised and lowered, its a little lower than I think it needs to be right now but the accelerator pump still squirts.
I have a new set of points installed and set at 0.016, but I dont have a new condenser and no parts house has one that fits this or the H 226. I'm going to get a condenser for something and try that.

I was just wondering if you can have spark but not enough spark to start.
I havent changed coils, Its a 12v coil in a case that looks original. I'm hoping to not have to change that, but it is what it is when it comes down to it.

 

[19Fordy]

Yes, it's possible to have a too weak spark. Check your battery. Is it fully charged?
Is your coil the type that has the ballast resistor "built in"? If not, you will need to install an external ballast resistor. Do you have a voltmeter to check things out?

 

[edhd58]

Yes, it's possible to have a too weak spark. Check your battery. Is it fully charged?
Is your coil the type that has the ballast resistor "built in"? If not, you will need to install an external ballast resistor. Do you have a voltmeter to check things out?

19Fordy,
Yes battery is charged,
The system has a ballast resistor in it, under the dash.
I dont know if the coil has a resistor internal.
Yes I do have a voltmeter, digital Fluke mutimeter

all suggestions of things to check will be greatly appreciated and check if I can.

I'm at a loss for things to check, my next step is to get a new condenser and go from there

I've attached pics of my coil

 

[19Fordy]

Best thing to do would be to talk directly contact folks on Forbarn like Jim Linder of Bubba's Ignition and get the best info. Messaging back and forth via PM's and emails doesn't provide a smooth flow of info.,especially if you have a spontaneous question. I have found this method to be best if you want "a fix" in a timely manner.

 

[rotorwrench]

Coils are as they are described, an inductor coil. They have a resistance value to the winding of the primary coil. The secondary coil is less important to the resistance value but suffice it to say that it has a much higher resistance due to the high number of windings. Some 12-volt coils don't need a ballast due to the resistance value of the primary. It's helpful to know the value that it is supposed to be for troubleshooting purposes. The old style coils for 6-volt had a lower value to the primary side so they could put the heat outside the coil in the ballast resistor. The old style coils didn't do well with heat. Some of the later reproduction coils are questionable about their quality of manufacture. This is why most folks on this forum recommend an original one that is rewound by Skip or others that use good quality wire winding material and modern epoxy in the process. The rebuilt coils can take the heat that they were designed for but still may need an external ballast depending on the configuration they were rebuilt for.

The condenser or capacitor is a very key item in the function of the ignition system. If it is leaking or low on capacity it can be very susceptible to heat related failure. Get the best quality part you can get by those that are in the know and get extras as well. Sometimes one out of three is good with the average brand product. This is a sad state of affairs but it pays to be prepared and it doesn't seem to be getting any better. The hand made condensers made by some are guaranteed but they are expensive and I'm not sure if they are the same capacitance value that you would need. Most are made for Vertex or Mallory type magnetos or distributors respectively.

 

[Bob C]

NAPA shows the condenser FA-54

 

[4dFord/SC]

NAPA shows the condenser FA-54

NAPA IH-200 works well, too.

 

[Flathead]

See if your battery meets the amperage requirements Ford specified for your vehicle. There are many 6 volt batteries that will crank the motor but not supply enough juice for a good spark while cranking. I know this from personal experience with a 49 Ford and a Model A. It may cost more but having the car start...."priceless"

 

[Ggmac]

If you're running a resistor and the coil has one built in , well , that can cause weak spark or spark that will get weaker when another load is applied like brakes or fan . I'd get a regular 12 Bosch coil that has a built in resistor and bypass the other .

 

[edhd58]

Bob / 4dFord - They have it on order for me but not in stock, going to get a couple - just in case.

Flathead - I have converted to 12 volt

 

[JSeery]

Need to start by checking the resistance (ohms) of the coil so you know what you are working with. You need this reading to know what is required in the rest of the ignition system.

 

[edhd58]

Thanks for the info JSeery, here is what I have

0.16 across the windings
12.8 Center terminal to + post

this looks like the coil is good. Am I right?

This meter isnt a Fluke, I thot this was a Fluke meter but its not

 

[JSeery]

Your numbers don't look correct at all to me, but I'm not real familiar with that year of coil. Bubba's numbers are .7 & 4.4K for a 6v coil, I would guess a rewired coil to 12v would be in the range of a normal 12v coil, but again, not sure about that. I would give him a call and see what he says. 12.8K would be in a reasonable range for a 12v coil, but the .16 seems way to low.

 

[Bob C]

If you look at the display on the meter it shows 1.6.


Bob

 

[JSeery]

If you look at the display on the meter it shows 1.6.
Bob[/QUOTE

Well, that would make a difference! Good input Bob. So, 1.6 ohm coil would be about right coupled with an ~1.4 ohm ballast resistor. So now, what resistor are you using?

 

[rotorwrench]

Some of the multi-meters auto range on resistance and some don't.

 

[edhd58]

Good catch Bob and even re-read that before I hit post. The resistor is the one under the dash. I'll have to check tonight to see about the resistor.

 

[JSeery]

If the under dash resistor is an original style, it is not the correct one for a 12v ignition.

Here’s some commonly available automobile ballasts available from NAPA:

•#ICR23 – 1.20 ohms
•#ICR11 – 1.35 ohms
•#ICR34 – 1.40 ohms
•#ICR37 – 1.60 ohms
•#ICR35 – 1.80 ohms
•#ICR13 – 1.82 ohms

Some other values are:

Lucas* 3BR (1.3 - 1.4 Ohms)
Mopar* DCC-4529795 (1.40 Ohms)
Accel* ACC-150250 (1.35 Ohms)
Standard* RU-4 (1.35 Ohms)
Standard RU-23 (1.20 ohms)
Standard RU-37 (1.40 Ohms)

Should look something like this:

 

[Bolts]

Just a thought. I would check the voltage on the battery during cranking to determine what the actual voltage going to the coil is. Very easy to do with a meter.
During cranking the high current draw out of the battery drops the voltage, so you may have a problem with your battery or starter if too much voltage is being lost during cranking.
On the condenser, I got a tip from an ignition expert to use a NAPA rr175 condenser for my starting problem. I had tried 4 other condensers and had bad results. The rr175 is a little larger and took a little doing to get it installed but it fixed my problem and the car starts better than it ever had before.

 

[Ross F-1]

Is that coil output wire a carbon-core resistance wire? If so your secondary measurements are off. I would expect secondary resistance to be under 10k ohms for sure.