Overdrive won't disengage

BigDan

Member
Hi guys and happy Independence Day! God bless America and American Fords! Mine is giving me a little grief and I'm hoping someone will suggest a remedy. My overdrive, (This is a stock '52 V-8) wasn't working at all. I had a mechanic, a 65 year-old guy who was "Familiar with them" install a new kickdown switch and now it works well as far as going into OD and kicking out for pa:confused:ssing but it stays in free-wheel mode when I come to a stop sign on the highway. My owner's manual says the overdrive should automatically disengage at 21 mph but that's not happening. I can kick down the accelerator and pull out the OD handle as I approach a stop sign which will disengage the OD, but that's not what I want to be doing. Anyone experience this? Thanks in advance for any insight and suggestions. Have a great holiday.
 
It sounds like it is doing what it is supposed to do, if I understand what you are saying. It should free wheel when it comes to a stop, anything below about 21 mph is free wheeling. If it locks into OD after about 30 mph and will kick down when you want it to and free wheels at lower speed, its OK. If you don't want free wheeling, pull out the cable when it stops and run it as a conventional transmission.
 
The free wheel clutch works any time the overdrive is locked in. This is why the owners manual warns you not to park on hills without either putting it into reverse gear or turning the steering wheel so it will roll into the curb. It will be pulled out of free wheeling if you pull the cable out and disingage the overdrive or put it in reverse gear.

Kerby
 
These guys are correct. The transmission will free wheel when the OD drops out unless you pull the lock-out handle. That is one of the characteristics of the OD. An advantage is that you can shift between 2nd and high without the clutch while in free wheel mode. Enjoy that good-working OD!
 
Thanks for the quick responses. Let me re-state my problem. Sounds like maybe it's not a problem, wouldn't that be nice.

After cruising in overdrive, I come to a stop sign. The overdrive lever will not pull out as long as the engine is running and when I take-off, in 1st gear it feels like I'm taking off in 2nd gear but it's really 1st and OD or 1st and freewheeling. At any rate, it doen't take off like it does in 1st with the lever out. I can only pull the lever out when I kick down the accelerator out of OD while driving along or before I start my trip. If that's how it's supposed to work, fine. It seems weird to me though. Thanks again. Dan
 
Make sure the new kickdown switch is not binding. The troubleshooting manual I have says this if the overdrive is not releasing: Remove the connection to the kickdown terminal on the relay . If this realeases overdrive,look for a grounded control circuitbetween the relay and govenor switch. If this does not release the overdrive disconnect the lead to the Solenoid terminal on the relay. If this releases the overdrive , replace the relay.
 
The cable should pull the lock out lever if the car is at rest or driving below the governor speed of approximately 26 mph. When moving below that speed you have to accelerate before you pull the handle. At speeds above the governor kick in, you have to do as you mentioned before. Accelerate till the trans kicks out of overdrive then pull the handle while still accelerating. You can usually feel the transmission make the change and you can tell it worked when you let off the gas since it will decelerate through engine braking as a normal manual transmission does (no free wheeling).

If it won't lock out at rest, there may be a problem with internal or external linkage to disengage the sun gear from the planetary and block the solenoid pawl. The shift rail might be worn or some other component might be worn in there causing binding. As was mentioned earlier, if there is an electrical problem such as a bypassed governor or a problem with the kick down wiring, then the solenoid will stay engaged and it won't lock out.

Kerby
 
Dan, it sounds like your OD is not dropping out. As Ken says, something is keeping power to the solenoid and not letting the OD drop out at about 21 MPH. The relay on the engine side of the firewall provides power to the solenoid. The relay is closed by the governor grounding it at about 26 mph. If the relay stays closed all the time the ignition switch is on there is something keeping a ground on it. As the troubleshooting Ken quoted said, look for a grounded wire from the governor, a bad governor, or an incorrectly wired relay are some possible causes that I can think of.
 
you do not try to pull o/d lever out while car in motion at any speed this must only be done when car at full stop
 
As a General rule I only operate the lock out cable control when stopped but Borg Warner and FoMoCo wrote the book and all of the Ford, Mercury, & Lincoln vehicles equipped with this system have the instructions I posted in #8 above in their respective Owner's Manuals. I've done it on the fly before but only when I was coming up on a mountain pass or really long hills with steep downgrades. If you run in overdrive down a steep grade you'll find out how good your brakes are for sure.

Kerby
 
Ken,
I took the car out this morning and put it back in the garage with engine running and trans. locked in OD as has been my problem, with no reverse OD lever won't go in. Engine still running I disconnected the solenoid connection at the relay. There was a click and the lever went right in, reverse was operating again. I haven't done the other tests you suggested and I'm wondering if I should before springing for a new relay. Thanks a ton for your help.

Dan
 
I would unhook the governor wire and see if that might be the problem. It don't sound like a relay to me because it let go when you unhooked the wire. If you unhooked the top wire on the relay, that should have been the wire from the governor if it is like mine.
 
I disconnected the wire marked sol. on the relay and that let me push the lever in and go into reverse. After my last post I took the relay off and cleaned all the connections. Replaced it and tried it out,no difference. It still goes into OD properly and will come out when I kick down into " passing gear" but it won't disengage on its own when I slow down and the lever won't pull out when I stop unless I disconnect the sol. wire. Also since cleaning up the relay connections, I notice a big negative dive on the ammeter when I turn the key on. Didn't blow fuse and overdrive still behaves the same way. I'm about ready to order a new relay. Any thoughts and suggestions greatly appreciated. Thanks again,

Dan

Dan
 
remove the fuse from the relay. If the OD disengages then I think your relay is good and you have a constant ground on the governor wire. It could be a dead ground on the wire or a bad governor.
 
I removed the fuse and the OD now engages and disengages properly and I can pull the OD lever out when I come to a stop sign. The ****** is now going to conventional, not free-wheeling when I slow down. It also goes into OD when I let-up and I can take off from a stop and not worry about the car feeling like I'm taking off in 2nd. Fine. However... I now have no "kick_down". The kickdown switch is new and was working until I cleaned the terminals on the relay. Also, I still have the obvious negative jump on the ammeter when I turn the key on. Removing the fuse took care of that problem though. Just to be clear, There are three terminals and a fuse on the relay. Two of the terminals are on the passenger side of the engine, I have the ignition wire, "hot" with key on, on the front terminal (radiator side) and the the thsw terminal (kickdown) on the firewall side. The driver's side has one terminal for the Solenoid. These connections are good but the ign terminal post is a little loose. Can I assume that the governor is now working properly since the OD engages and disengages as it should? And what is going on with the ammeter dive when I turn the key on? How about the kickdown which was working yesterday? As always, thanks to everyone for your help and suggestions. I really do appreciate you guys taking the time to give me your two cents worth.

Dan
 
I removed the fuse and the OD now engages and disengages properly and I can pull the OD lever out when I come to a stop sign. The ****** is now going to conventional, not free-wheeling when I slow down. It also goes into OD when I let-up and I can take off from a stop and not worry about the car feeling like I'm taking off in 2nd. Fine. However... I now have no "kick_down". The kickdown switch is new and was working until I cleaned the terminals on the relay. Also, I still have the obvious negative jump on the ammeter when I turn the key on. Removing the fuse took care of that problem though. Just to be clear, There are three terminals and a fuse on the relay. Two of the terminals are on the passenger side of the engine, I have the ignition wire, "hot" with key on, on the front terminal (radiator side) and the the thsw terminal (kickdown) on the firewall side. The driver's side has one terminal for the Solenoid. These connections are good but the ign terminal post is a little loose. Can I assume that the governor is now working properly since the OD engages and disengages as it should? And what is going on with the ammeter dive when I turn the key on? How about the kickdown which was working yesterday? As always, thanks to everyone for your help and suggestions. I really do appreciate you guys taking the time to give me your two cents worth.

Dan

When you remove the fuse, the system can't work, so I'm confused when you say it engages and disengages now. Perhaps language is the problem.

I think when you say "engage" you're talking purely about the pull handle. "Engage" to me means actually upshifting into OD.

If I were you, I'd stop messing with the handle and go for a straight diagnosis of the OD system. The handle doesn't "engage" the OD, the handle either allows the OD to operate (IN), or it disables the OD (OUT). When the OD is disabled (handle OUT), the ****** operates like a normal direct drive 3 speed including compression braking (as opposed to free-wheeling). With the handle IN, the OD is free to operate. In operation, the ****** will free wheel (coasting) until the OD "engages" (upshifts). When the OD engages (normally at 26 MPH and higher) the ****** will not free wheel anymore until you slow down less than 23 mph.

The three contact on the relay are for 1. power input (usually from the coil power supply), 2. to the solenoid, and 3. from the governor (which is routed through half of the kickdown switch.

When the car hits 26 mph, the governor completes the connection and "tells" the relay to send power to the solenoid which then upshifts (engages the OD). The opposite happens when you slow down to less than 23 mph.

When you hit the kickdown switch, two things happen because the kickdown switch is a two pole switch: 1. the governor connection is interrupted and 2. the ignition is momentarily killed. The reason the ignition is killed to to provide "slack" in the driveline which is necessary for downshifting the OD.

Now, from what you described, I think the governor switch is sticking in the "On" position because it is not telling the relay (which then tells the solenoid) to shut off. This is confirmed by your ammeter draw. Another possibility is that a frayed wire to the governor switch may be hitting the chassis of the car bacause the governor operates by taking the system to ground and a frayed wire could do the same thing.

If your system is powered by the ignition key, then you'll hear a click when you turn the key off that confirms the solenoid was released. You probably can hear the same click when you pull the fuse.

I hope this is helpful. You really should get a Green Bible or other good book on the subject.
 
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