mechanical brakes

QGolden said:
Hey Duffy

The second is to go back through the alignment procedure in Les' Book, starting with the brake all rod lengths at 51-7/16" to 51-1/2". I think your Drag might be a Red Herring throwing you off of the trail.
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Is that what he says? That is not good! That length was ONLY applicable to the early equalizer system and even then with all proper parts only.

To adjust the rods on late '28 through 1931 models you simply adjust the length of the pull rods until the pin will slide in with the freeplay removed at the lever. If everything is proper in the drums you are done with the rods. If any changes are required after that then you are compensating for something improper at one or more wheels.
 
If the front brake lever is vertical at rest, is this an adjustment or does it need pills inserted to make the vertical push rod longer to make it cant 15 degrees forward?
 
I really like the simplicity implied in all above informative written replies.

Appears seniors raised prior to computers, cell phones, & hand held calculators are used to listening to themselves when they are talking to themselves while working; hence, seniors exercise a lot of common sense (CS); however, some of us seniors may have combined (CS) & (CRS), which is really not too bad if we follow Ray's suggestion to write things down.

Thanks Ray, I do the same, i.e., write it down; but, I can't always remember where I stored the Log Book -- I'll work on that this afternoon.
 
Purdy ;
Thanks for the in depth response. I will adjust the brakes tomorrow per your suggestion.

700rpm ;
Thanks for your response also . After adjusting the breaks I will test them per your suggestion. Tomorrow I will you folks know how the brake adjustment worked out .
 
Marco Tahtaras said:
Is that what he says? That is not good! That length was ONLY applicable to the early equalizer system and even then with all proper parts only.

To adjust the rods on late '28 through 1931 models you simply adjust the length of the pull rods until the pin will slide in with the freeplay removed at the lever. If everything is proper in the drums you are done with the rods. If any changes are required after that then you are compensating for something improper at one or more wheels.
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Well, now that you point that out, I will need check the book when I get home, I am on the road at the moment but will look it up. Thank you.
 
pooch said:
If the front brake lever is vertical at rest, is this an adjustment or does it need pills inserted to make the vertical push rod longer to make it cant 15 degrees forward?
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Add a pill, the brake arm is restricted in movement internal in the kingpin. If it starts at vertical, you have lost 15 degrees of movement, and the internal arm on top of the pushrod may bottom out before full pressure can be applied. If you have an old kingpin and an old brakeshaft housing with a shaft, hold them together and turn the arm the same as if the brakes are being applied. See how far the arm can move before being restricted internally. Also, see how much horizontal movement of the rod has when it starts further back because the arm is not forward 15 degrees.
 
Ok folks ,adjusted brakes per Purdy`s instructions . Stops great . I do have one problem that surfaced since having the brakes completely rebuilt . When you make a sharp left turn and apply the brakes the left front brake grabs . Also when you make a panic stop at about 15 mph the left front brake is the first to lock up . Something going on with the left front brake . Inspected the left front brake and could see nothing different than the right front brake. Anyone have any ideas as to what is causing this grabbing . Appreciate your input .
 
Duffy1 said:
Ok folks ,adjusted brakes per Purdy`s instructions . Stops great . I do have one problem that surfaced since having the brakes completely rebuilt . When you make a sharp left turn and apply the brakes the left front brake grabs . Also when you make a panic stop at about 15 mph the left front brake is the first to lock up . Something going on with the left front brake . Inspected the left front brake and could see nothing different than the right front brake. Anyone have any ideas as to what is causing this grabbing . Appreciate your input .
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make sure your backing plate bolts are tight as they have been known to loosen.
ck your wheel bearing adjustment for excessive loosness

make sure you dont have slop in your brake actuator assy where your brake rod hooks to the lever.
 
PS ; Forgot to mention that I have checked out the remedies ( backing plate tight ,wheel bearing tight ,king pin tight ) outlined in Les Andrews book.
 
Try backing off on the adjustment wedge on the left front. Just a few clicks could make a difference. Check the brakes on gravel or soft dirt and check out the skid marks like Ray says in post #19. As long as the wheel locks up on a panic stop, you will know that the brakes are working. If trial and error adjustments at the adjustment wedge doesn't relieve the problem, remove the brake drum, disconnect the brake rod and look for a bind in the system when you pull and release the brake lever. Without personally checking it out, I am only guessing at this point. Thanks for the feedback. The brakes will be better after any high spots in the lining wear in.
 
I think Mitch and Purdy have it covered, and I'd check the wear pattern to see if you have full contact of the brake shoes yet. Brake easy until they are worn in to full contact.

When making a left turn the weight on the left side will be less, so that's one reason for the left wheel to lock sooner. It's generally a good idea to drive even or with a slight acceleration in a turn, rather than be braking in a turn.
 
Marco Tahtaras said:
Is that what he says? That is not good! That length was ONLY applicable to the early equalizer system and even then with all proper parts only.

To adjust the rods on late '28 through 1931 models you simply adjust the length of the pull rods until the pin will slide in with the freeplay removed at the lever. If everything is proper in the drums you are done with the rods. If any changes are required after that then you are compensating for something improper at one or more wheels.
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I did return home and followed up regarding my comment on Brake Rod Length. In Les' book on page 1-45 he begins his instruction regarding "Installing Brake Rods" with "Set all four (4) service brake rods to a length of 51-7/16 to 51-1/2 from eye to eye centers". I followed that up by going to my Service Bulletins, on page 297, November (I think '28) there is the announcement of the "New Solid Brake Cross Shaft" and on page 298 instructions are given for retrofitting vehicles. When the instructions come to the section on the the Brake Rods, the same instruction is given regarding the length of the rods.

So, at least I know where I got the information as I remembered it. :eek: (That is huge for me)..

Seeing it in print in multiple locations caused me to think it was important enough to retain it, and put it in my notebook for quick future reference.

Am I mis-interpreting something? 'Cause I really dislike sharing incorrect information, and do it too often it seems.
 
QGolden said:
I did return home and followed up regarding my comment on Brake Rod Length. In Les' book on page 1-45 he begins his instruction regarding "Installing Brake Rods" with "Set all four (4) service brake rods to a length of 51-7/16 to 51-1/2 from eye to eye centers". I followed that up by going to my Service Bulletins, on page 297, November (I think '28) there is the announcement of the "New Solid Brake Cross Shaft" and on page 298 instructions are given for retrofitting vehicles. When the instructions come to the section on the the Brake Rods, the same instruction is given regarding the length of the rods.

So, at least I know where I got the information as I remembered it. :eek: (That is huge for me)..

Seeing it in print in multiple locations caused me to think it was important enough to retain it, and put it in my notebook for quick future reference.

Am I mis-interpreting something? 'Cause I really dislike sharing incorrect information, and do it too often it seems.
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Please note that in my first paragraph I wrote:

"That length was ONLY applicable to the early equalizer system and even then with all proper parts only."

The equalizer system was used through October 1928. You are indeed correct regarding the Service Bulletins. However if you read it through and digest it you will see what a silly, unnecessary statement that really was (and certainly no fault of yours!). Again, they are talking about retrofitting the early brake system with a solid cross shaft. They essentially say take the solid rods, cut them, thread them, install the adjustable eye, then adjust them to exactly the same length they were before you started! (see page 259). Now that by itself seems a bit silly. As you continue reading through the brake adjustment it basically states that each of the rods are then to be adjusted as I described in my second paragraph.

No matter how many times you read it through, you will not find any justification for the statement about pre-adjusting or presetting the brake rods to any given length. The same applies to anyone else publishing such information. Now if Les Andrews does NOT follow up with a proper procedure for adjusting the rods then he has led many readers down a bad path.

To build a little on the early brake system, I noted fixed length rods function "with all proper parts". That meant with every piece of the system in like new condition. Most folks don't take it to that level so the rods need to be adjusted. Unlike the solid brake shaft which has a fixed pivot point at each end of the shaft, the equalizer shafts use brackets that allow fore/aft travel at the outer ends. The ends need to be held in the center of travel within these brackets with blocks or whatever else is convenient prior to adjusting the brake rods.

You obviously weren't in error and I'm glad you recalled the various bits of info. It provided an opportunity to get some things clarified.


 
Marco,
Thank you for the thoughtful and detailed explanation. Your comments caused me to re-read Les' book. As I indicated on page 1-45 he starts with a detailed measurement.

He also references in Paragraph 8 on 1-45 that we should "Adjust the brakes and rods in accordance with Section II-Service adjustments.

On page 2-3 of the Service Adjustments section of the book, paragraph 7 states "Adjust the clevis on the brake rod until the hole in the clevis lines up with the hole in the cross shaft" ..."allowing the clevis pin to be inserted. Tighten the jam nut..."

So you are exactly correct, adjusting the brake rods to such a precise measurement only to loosen the jam nut and then re-adjust it is unnecessary. I am sure Les was making an unconscious mental reference to the Service Bulletins when he wrote that chapter.

I appreciate your challenging my information, turning it into a teaching moment, and helping me to understand the process better. Thank you.
 
Similar but not the same, I have a brother in law that is flabbergasted that I don't particularly care what the oil pressure is. So I bought a Rex-A-Co at a swap meet with the needle stuck on 6 and installed it in the car . . . just for him.
 
pooch said:
If the front brake lever is vertical at rest, is this an adjustment or does it need pills inserted to make the vertical push rod longer to make it cant 15 degrees forward?
Click to expand...

To make the brake lever lean forward you'll need to put a pill in the top of the operating wedge. This will, in effect, make the operating rod longer and give better application of the front shoes. The operating rod should measure 7 1/4" and the pills make up for the wear of the rod.
 
QGolden said:
I did return home and followed up regarding my comment on Brake Rod Length. In Les' book on page 1-45 he begins his instruction regarding "Installing Brake Rods" with "Set all four (4) service brake rods to a length of 51-7/16 to 51-1/2 from eye to eye centers". I followed that up by going to my Service Bulletins, on page 297, November (I think '28) there is the announcement of the "New Solid Brake Cross Shaft" and on page 298 instructions are given for retrofitting vehicles. When the instructions come to the section on the the Brake Rods, the same instruction is given regarding the length of the rods.

So, at least I know where I got the information as I remembered it. :eek: (That is huge for me)..

Seeing it in print in multiple locations caused me to think it was important enough to retain it, and put it in my notebook for quick future reference.

Am I mis-interpreting something? 'Cause I really dislike sharing incorrect information, and do it too often it seems.
Click to expand...


The andrews is the best source of information in print. BUT as you have found there are errors or clarifications that need to be made to the book.
 
Mike V. Florida said:
The andrews is the best source of information in print. BUT as you have found there are errors or clarifications that need to be made to the book.
Click to expand...
I am really surprised that erratta sheets have not been issued, or at least a new edition with these changes made. And there are several.
 
Thanks for the response fellows . I did take the brake rods loose and did not see any binding . As an experiment I backed of the adjuster on the left front wheel and tightened the adjuster on the right front wheel to the point that the car pulled to the right when you do a panic stop. With this set up I made a sharp low speed turn and put on the brakes ,has if you were pulling in a parking spot , left front wheel still grabbed. While doing some research on this I was looking at my model B service manual and noticed the procedure for adjusting brakes was to rotate the wheels and adjust each wheel until you hear the brake shoe rubbing against the brake drum . A lot different procedure than what is in the model A service manual. The model B service manual also states to have the brake rod 1/32 short of the pin hole in the brake lever . I did have a real panic stop while testing out my brakes . A fellow came backing out of his drive way at a high rate of speed not looking to see if anyone was behind him . I did see him coming and locked the brakes and hit the horn.He kept coming and just missed me. I see no controversy as it relates to mech. brakes vs hydraulic brakes . If the wheels are locked they are locked makes no difference how they got locked . Gentlemen . Thanks again for all the input.
 
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