mechanical brakes

J

justcruisin68

Junior Member
my cousin always gives me a hard time about keeping mechanical brakes
on my 1930 coupe. I went through everything and made sure all was adjusted properly. Backed down my driveway, put her in first and headed
for my garage. was going a pretty good clip and was almost at the garage
door.hit the brakes and the car stopped perfectly...why bother with
hydraulics?
 
Mechanical brakes are fine for the A. Hydraulic brakes can have their own issues, leaky/sticking wheel cylinders, air in the system, corrosion, master cylinder issues, cracked, swollen, or restricted hoses, rusty brake tubing, and more. Who would want hydraulics? The bottom line is: Good hydraulics will stop the car and so will good mechanicals. It is all about being in good condition.
 
I love my mechanical brakes, and wouldn't trade them for anything. I never have a problem with the master cylinder, a bad wheel cylinder, faulty brake line...

As hydraulics gained popularity, Ford used to advertise 'The safety of steel, from toe to wheel.' They were very reliable.

Admittedly, they are a bit maintenance intensive, but no more so than the hydraulics of the day. Just be sure to keep all the linkages lubed, and keep them well-adjusted. Also, be aware that the original steel brake drums are more prone to brake-fade than cast iron.

The car is 40 hp. It has plenty of 'stop' for the amount of 'go'.
 
Has anyone adjusted the mechanical brakes using a procedure different than those outlined by Les Andrews. I had my mechanical breaks completely rebuilt about 300 miles ago. I did the first adjustment since the rebuild following Les Andrews procedure. Now when I rotate the back wheels and front wheels there is way to much brake shoe drag on the drums . More so on the back than the front. Appreciate your input .
 
Duffy1, how are you measuring the drag. If the wheels are off the ground the brake rods might be pulling slightly. I would roll the car on a flat surface and see if you have any drag. You can also coast along on a back road, then quickly get out and shoot each wheel with a temp gun to check for heat.
 
I think that an infra red thermometer gun is the greatest diagnostic tool for brakes you can have. Instantly will tell you if a brake is dragging.
 
FWIW:

Quite a few times, intelligent Model A owners added the same Common Sense Comment regarding mechanical brakes vs. hydraulic brakes as follows:

"If one presses on one's brake pedal with mechanical brakes, & one's four (4) Model
A rubber tires immediately quit turning, & solidly lock up, & start smoking where one's tires meet the road, how can adding hydraulic brakes work to stop any better? "

After some time, many on "all" vehicle Forums & many on "all" other Forums give up & quit answering the same re-occurring questions not because they do not want to assist, but because no matter what, people just do not want to listen.

Like the old saying: Free friendly advice is not always good -- a smart person does not need it, & a fool does not believe it.

Maybe your cousin is thinking about changing to hydraulic brakes, "plus" changing to 24" wide rubber tires for more traction -- maybe just kindly ask him -- but be nice, remember, after all he is your cousin & it is Christmas Time.
 
Last edited:
I put my foot on the brake and the car stops. I slam on the brakes all four wheels lock up.

Can you tell what kind of brakes, mech or juice, I have on the car based on those two statements?
 
Tom and QGolden ;
Thanks for the response .
What would cause the brake rods to pull . When the car is on jack stands the back wheels are harder to rotate ( ie more drag ) than the front . You can hear the brake shoes dragging on the drums. After making some hard stops the back drums are cool to the touch. The front drums are to hot to touch . The inverse to what you would think based on when the wheels are off the ground.
Apologize for high jacking this thread . I will start a new one specific to my problem.
 
My five cents. Just move to New England you will find out about juice brakes. We are
a machine job shop, we must have done atleast 20 brake lines this month. And to beat all
we ran out of brake lines (stock) Jump in my Lincoln to go to Napa Poommm there goes
another one. Especially plow trucks. Big problem is most people put their vehicles away
all winter. Then comes next year wheel cyl's master cyl's air in the system. They should
be outlaw'ed. I dont own a truck with juice, all air brakes. Those who shun mech. brakes, fact is there not set up right in the first place, yes a little tricky to set up right,
but when right they'll put you through the windshield, I proved that years ago when a
kid on a bike crossed right in front of me in my 36 fordor and smoked all four's, now THAT
would NOT be a nice time to blow a brake line? right!

And I dont need any stupid brake fluid in my 23 Ford period!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Last edited:
Duffy1 said:
Tom and QGolden ;
Thanks for the response .
What would cause the brake rods to pull . When the car is on jack stands the back wheels are harder to rotate ( ie more drag ) than the front . You can hear the brake shoes dragging on the drums. After making some hard stops the back drums are cool to the touch. The front drums are to hot to touch . The inverse to what you would think based on when the wheels are off the ground.
Apologize for high jacking this thread . I will start a new one specific to my problem.
Click to expand...

Hey Duffy
Someone a lot more experienced than me will help, but two things come to mind, one is Frame Sag? Where are your Jack Stands located? Is there any chance that the frame geometry changes after you put her on the ground? I put my stands under the Axles so the frame is loaded on the springs, since the rods transfer energy from the frame to the loaded axle.

The second is to go back through the alignment procedure in Les' Book, starting with the brake all rod lengths at 51-7/16" to 51-1/2". I think your Drag might be a Red Herring throwing you off of the trail.

Your front brakes are set to do more work than the rear.
 
What did I do wrong? After 16 years, the hydraulic brakes on both of my A's do not leak, there is no air in the system, the wheel cyclinders aren't stuck and the hoses are as good as new.
 
I think some folks have their minds made up and don't want to be confused with the facts. I've had good luck with mechanical brakes.
 
Yep, the mechanical brakes are just fine and pretty bullet proof. That is, when the brakes are installed correctly and then adjusted properly.
 
In the next issue of the Model A Times (January 2014) we reviewed various adjustment procedures spelled out for the mechanical brakes. We end with one taught to me by the service manager at the Ford Garage when the Model A was being sold. An interesting perspective on how it was really done.
 
Duffy1 said:
Tom and QGolden ;
Thanks for the response .
What would cause the brake rods to pull . When the car is on jack stands the back wheels are harder to rotate ( ie more drag ) than the front . You can hear the brake shoes dragging on the drums. After making some hard stops the back drums are cool to the touch. The front drums are to hot to touch . The inverse to what you would think based on when the wheels are off the ground.
Apologize for high jacking this thread . I will start a new one specific to my problem.
Click to expand...

Here is my thought . If the car has jack stands under the frame, the axles will be suspended and would cause pull on the brake rods. If jack stands are under the axles there will be no pull on the brake rods. The rear brakes need to be adjusted with the wheels on the floor, or when the rear wheels touch the floor, the slack in the rear wheel bearings will be taken up and there will be drag on the bottom brake shoe. The drag will be worse depending on how much wear is present on the outer rear axle housing bearing races. The rear brake shoes mount at different angles than the front. On the rear you have a shoe on the bottom and a shoe on top. The rear brake cams float in the rear brake camshafts to help compensate for up and down movement at the rear wheel bearings. When the rear wheel bearing races that are part of the rear axle housings are worn you get more slack that causes rear brake adjustment to be more difficult or near impossible. All of the weight is supported by the bottoms of the rear wheel bearing races , that are part of the axle housings. This is why in worse cases the axle housing outer races need to be turned down and sleeves pressed on to overcome the wear. After reading where Les says that the brake rods need to be adjusted to an exact length, credibility was lost. I know that Les has model A's and knows a lot, the only excuse that I can imagine is that he forgot and was thinking about the early brake rods that didn't have adjustable clevises and would stretch and need replacement. I won't waste time going through the brake rod setup but will just touch on brake adjustment at the wheels. Adjust the rear brakes first with the wheels on the floor and the rods disconnected. adjust each rear wheel untill the brakes lock and then back off untill the wheel moves with little or no drag. I push the car by hand with the wheels on the cement floor to determine the amount or lack of drag. After rear adjustment at each wheel is done jack up the front end with jack stands under the axle and adjust the front brakes with the rods discoinnected until the wheel locks up and then back off just enough to obtain free movement without drag. I then adjust the brake rod clevices untill the clevise pins will just enter the brake levers.This clevis adjustment doesn't cause drag but has the rods adjusted so that when you push the brake pedal the shoes will be right ready to expand against the drum and give the best brakes. If slack remains in the brake rod adjustment, you can run out of movement at the pedal before the brake shoes can reach maximum expansion. I agree that there are many ways to adjust the brakes, If slack remains at the brake rods and cross shaft angle and pedal rod adjustments are wrong, brakes won't preform at optimum level.
 
Last edited:
The problems with juice brakes vary by climate.

Here in NJ you will have more problems then say in AZ.
Here in NJ we have days with fairly high humidity and 30 to 40 degree variation during the day at some points of the year. This allows for condensing humidity and pressure changes due to expansion differences with the metal and fluid.

I had asked around at a local car show (AACA with all year cars) and found about half the cars had brake problems. Yes, Half The Cars!!!!!!!

There is a lot of bad information on rebuilding the mechanical brakes. This bad information also applies to the juice brakes. When done right mechanical brakes will always work just like the juice brakes when using the original type tires. I believe, but can not prove, that going to modern tires with high friction then juice brakes may be an improvement.

From a safety stand point the mechanical brakes are very unlikely to fail when properly rebuilt. Most of the juice brakes have single point of failure issues.

Modern brake lines have been a great profit to the auto shops. My brother used to go through just a few feet of line a year. Now they go through 10's of feet a week. The lines are coated with sealer. The clips seem to remove the sealer and you get rust spots. I guess the old was more expensive and created more pollution. The new way only increases the odds of actually killing someone directly. Progress.
 
Here's what I do with new brakes: I'm just an old shade tree mechanic, so I use every trick I know to get my brakes right. That includes Les's and Purdy's and Gordon Fischer's methods and the Service Bulletins and anything else I've gleaned in fifty years. When I think I've got 'em right, I take it out for a short drive and slam on the brakes, in gravel or soft dirt or sand, when I can find it. I look at the skid marks and that tells me something about the adjustments. If I can't find a soft road, I'll just slam on the brakes at about 20 mph to see if they pull, and adjust if necessary. Then I drive it for a couple miles and stop and feel the drums. If one or more are hot, I make the appropriate adjustments. During a few more drives over a week or so I continually check for hot drums and pulling until everything evens out. My theory on my Model A's is I have to check all the systems all the time, I can't do something just once and figure I'm done with it. I have three cars and keep a log book where I record what I've done to each car and when, 'cuz I CRS any more.
 
700rpm said:
Here's what I do with new brakes: I'm just an old shade tree mechanic, so I use every trick I know to get my brakes right. That includes Les's and Purdy's and Gordon Fischer's methods and the Service Bulletins and anything else I've gleaned in fifty years. When I think I've got 'em right, I take it out for a short drive and slam on the brakes, in gravel or soft dirt or sand, when I can find it. I look at the skid marks and that tells me something about the adjustments. If I can't find a soft road, I'll just slam on the brakes at about 20 mph to see if they pull, and adjust if necessary. Then I drive it for a couple miles and stop and feel the drums. If one or more are hot, I make the appropriate adjustments. During a few more drives over a week or so I continually check for hot drums and pulling until everything evens out. My theory on my Model A's is I have to check all the systems all the time, I can't do something just once and figure I'm done with it. I have three cars and keep a log book where I record what I've done to each car and when, 'cuz I CRS any more.
Click to expand...

I'm an old shade tree mechanic as well and test mine in the exact same way as you. It takes a few adjustments at the adjustment wedges untill the brakes get worn in. After that, as with any drum type brakes , they will need additional adjustments as the parts wear.

As a kid with my first model A, I learned the importance of removing all slack at the brake rod clevises. At first I would adjust the brakes at the wedges untill I could feel drag and back off but still would have NO brakes on the front. An older guy showed me that if I didn't take up the slack at the clevises, I would run out of pedal before the shoes ever touched the drums. Its really just common sense if you think about how the system actually works.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top