West Peoria Fire Department Engine 1

[johnhg7]

The West Peoria Fire Department in Illinois recently re purchased our original engine, a 1941 Ford built up by Howe. One of our captains found it just after a hot rodder purchased it and had started tearing it apart for a project. The motor was gone, but pretty much everything else was there, including all the brass fixtures.

Unfortunately he had taken a torch to the steering column and pedal assembly, and cut any wire he could find. We have replaced the pedals, steering column, and main harness, but there is still a lot of work left.

We found a motor but are having issues with belt clearances. The fan belt is interfering with the distributor as we attempted to demonstrate in the picture below.

Any suggestions on what needs to be done?

It also appears to have a drive shaft parking brake on the back of the transmission, but we are not real sure about that.

Thanks in advance,
Jack

 

[Mart]

The belt should go around the rearmost pulley, around both water pumps add around the generator. They should all be in the same plane. Your engine may have the wrong pulley. Is there another pulley groove in line with the water pump pulleys?

Mart.

 

[johnhg7]

Yes there is. We just can't seem to find a belt that will fit around the generator, fan, and water pumps. The one we purchased for a 41 Ford seems about an inch too short.

 

[sunshine]

I sounds like you are trying to put a jig saw puzzle back together without a pattern.i don't if you belong to the early ford v8 or not , but there 4 locals in ill. If you would contact one of the clubs they would probly be glad to help you with a community project like this

 

[Joe Immler]

As to the dirve shaft brake I think that is correct. The fire pump runs off the transmission so the brake would be relocated to the drive shaft.

 

[johnhg7]

sunshine- We are not members, but I'll check into that. Thank you.

Okay that makes sense. As it sits right now someone (this truck was owned by at least three departments, a few civic organizations, and a couple of private individuals before we got it back) put a new driveshaft in it that blows right through the pump.

 

[Joe Immler]

John PM me with the brand and serial number of the pump. I may have a repair manual for it.

 

[Newc]

Hi ; I converted a '40 Fire truck to a military truck oops! What provision do you have for a engine tachometer? Usually the fire trucks use a tach for controlling the pump speed, and have a tach guage in the pump control station. I still have the tach drive.. it was off the front of the generator. Newc

 

[Mike in AZ]

welcome to the 'Barn.....looks like a fun project....good luck....and keep asking questions, someone here usually has the answer.....Mike

 

[Mart]

Try a B52 or B53 belt. One of those should do it.

Mart.

 

[johnhg7]

Newc, you are correct the pump panel has a tachometer. There is a cable running into the engine bay for it but we are missing the rest of the mechanism. If you would be willing to part with it please let me know.

Mart, thanks for the tip on the belts!

Jack

 

[Clem Clement]

I have had luck using the green lawn mower belts for odd sizes

 

[rotorwrench]

The 1941 may have had a crank mounted fan originally. This can make for interesting fit for a post war engine with a separate fan but there is more space to work with in a truck engine compartment. The old Leece Neville alternators were common on fire engines but this makes them rather uncommon when looking for parts. They looked like big generator and they generally had a drive for a tachometer. Fire engines had lots of lights and other electric load accessories that required a lot more amperage then a 35 amp car generator could put out.

 

[twostickmutt]

As to the dirve shaft brake I think that is correct. The fire pump runs off the transmission so the brake would be relocated to the drive shaft.

if that emergency brake is set i dont think they will be able to run the pump will they. (if its still in the truck ). usually there is a short drive shaft going from the main transmission to the pump transmission that throws the back driveshaft in neutral going to the rear end so they can pump;.

 

[snappydon]

if that emergency brake is set i dont think they will be able to run the pump will they. (if its still in the truck ). usually there is a short drive shaft going from the main transmission to the pump transmission that throws the back driveshaft in neutral going to the rear end so they can pump;.

Pump is likely PTO driven off the transmission case. Parking brake drum is attached to the driveline...usually.

 

[alanwoodieman]

on my 41 fire engine, there was a lever that moved a gear box on the pump-this allowed the engine to drive the truck or run the pump-not both. the brake band had been relocated to behind the pump so when in pump mode the truck would not roll away. another thing-my truck had a solid drive shaft from rear of trans to pump and this shaft beat the crap out of the rear trans bearing allowing the gears to grind together and when I replaced the bearing it now really howles when the brake is applied--no problem when it is driven down the road

 

[johnhg7]

if that emergency brake is set i dont think they will be able to run the pump will they. (if its still in the truck ). usually there is a short drive shaft going from the main transmission to the pump transmission that throws the back driveshaft in neutral going to the rear end so they can pump;.

This is how it was set up from Howe. Right now there is one driveshaft that runs from the transmission to the rear end, blowing right through the bottom section of the pump.

There is actually a second brake. There is a button in the cab with wires that lead to a valve of some sort on the back of the master cylinder. According to the plate you apply the brakes and then press this switch and release the brake pedal. It must stop fluid from returning to the master. I have no clue if it works but I certainly wouldn't trust it...

Pump is likely PTO driven off the transmission case. Parking brake drum is attached to the driveline...usually.

You can sort of see it in one of the pictures. It looks like its bolted to the back of the transmission but I'm not sure. I'll try to get a better picture.

I have had luck using the green lawn mower belts for odd sizes

John Deere?

The 1941 may have had a crank mounted fan originally. This can make for interesting fit for a post war engine with a separate fan but there is more space to work with in a truck engine compartment. The old Leece Neville alternators were common on fire engines but this makes them rather uncommon when looking for parts. They looked like big generator and they generally had a drive for a tachometer. Fire engines had lots of lights and other electric load accessories that required a lot more amperage then a 35 amp car generator could put out.

Thanks for the heads up! I think the best plan might be to drop the engine and radiator in with the fan shroud and just see where the fan should go to be centered in the shroud.

Jack

 

[johnhg7]

on my 41 fire engine, there was a lever that moved a gear box on the pump-this allowed the engine to drive the truck or run the pump-not both. the brake band had been relocated to behind the pump so when in pump mode the truck would not roll away. another thing-my truck had a solid drive shaft from rear of trans to pump and this shaft beat the crap out of the rear trans bearing allowing the gears to grind together and when I replaced the bearing it now really howles when the brake is applied--no problem when it is driven down the road

Was this lever in the cab right next to the gear lever? In the pictures in the first post, is the brake band you're talking about on the rear of the trans?

Thanks for the help!

 

[alanwoodieman]

no, lever was on running board, the brake band was behind the pump

 

[johnhg7]

no, lever was on running board, the brake band was behind the pump

Okay. As far as I can tell then I believe the band on the back of our trans is the brake. There is only one large lever on the pump panel and it appears to have been used to engage the pump with the drive train.