Water pump/ carb

Neshkoro

Neshkoro

Senior Member
Question one:
I'm having overheating issues. I've been searching for a new water pump, the new seal design that says " no leak" type. The current one leaks severely. They're pretty hard to find. Seems every supplier I've tried are sold out and their supply is on back order.
I've thought about buying one of the rebuilding kits. Has any one here bought and rebuilt one using a rebuild kit? Was it successful?

Question two:
Carburetor.I currently have a Tillitson carb. It also leaks from time to time. Seems the needle does not always seal off when the float rises and also the castings are warped. When I shut the car off gas pours out from the carb or sometimes as it is running it floods out, backfires and dies due to too much gas.
Same issue. carbs are hard to find and they're expensive as hell! Seeing as many of you folks are not fond of the Tillitson, I was thinking about getting a Zenith. Hard to find a brand new one or even a rebuilt one. I was looking on eBay and there are plenty of used ones, less than half the price than a new or rebuilt one. I was thinking of buying a used one and rebuilding it. What are your thoughts on that? I've rebuilt the Tillitson a couple of times. I know a Zenith is different and more complicated but I'm sure not too difficult.
Thoughts?
Thanks,
Bill
 
Zenith carbs are not difficult to rebuild.

Rebuilding a stock water pump is not a difficult task either.

I would suggest giving both a go.

What is it that makes you think you are having overheating issues?

A leak less water pump will not necessarily solve an overheating problem.
 
I actually prefer Tillotson X over the Zenith (I've tried three of them various permutations.)

Some think the Marvel Scheiber is even better than Tilly X. I have two of them I have yet to try.

Any pot metal carbs MIGHT have problems with body warp. Technically a slight gap at the cover SHOULDN't affect operation. There is actually a vent on most carb tops to "vent" the chamber.

If you carb is leaking - look to a missing jet seal, level control float/valve, or adjustment of the controlled float level (control level set above jets will cause a continual leak.

The "Level indicator kits" are cheap and give graphic indication of the level.

Joe K
 
I agree with the comments from both joe and 1cross 100%.

Be careful on line buying a carb that has been "restored". Sometimes they have just been given a paint job or just cleaned up, and that's it, and your out $250. There are a few very good carb builders that you can trust.

As far as the gas leak. You need to also check your fuel shutoff under the tank. that is probably leaking as well. Remove the line off the carb, keep the fuel shut off, and see if you have any drips out of the line were it goes into the carb.

I really doubt your overheating issues have anything to do with the water pump.

Do you have a temp gauge that tells you the temp? If not, what are the symptoms that say you have a overheating issue?
 
I seem to be dealing with 3 different unrelated issues!
The overheating issue is it boils over after running a while. The water pump leaks at the seal. I tried replacing the rope seal with not good results. I just thought a new pump would fix the leak. As far a the carb leak goes. I know the Tilly parts are warped and don't seal well but as you said that should not matter. I've had the carb apart many times. There must be a clogged port somewhere as adjustment does nothing..I'm going to flush the radiator and block to see if that will fix the overheating.
 
Thats why I was asking about buying a used carb. I'm not afraid of tearing onto anything!
I made that mistake and bought a "Carb off a good running car" from eBay. That was a big piece of crap! Leaked like a sieve! I was able to get my money back so no loss other than my time. Buyer beware!
 
Contact Gary. His company has excellent rebuilt carbs at a very reasonable price. I have purchased 2 Marvels from him. They also rebuild and sell rebuilt Zeniths. Good carbs...

Gary Johnson
903-490-3725
karman10131@gmail.com
Texarkana, TX
 
Before you flush the radiator and block (not a bad thing to do though) a few questions.

Do you actually know what the coolant temperature is?

Are you filling the radiator all the way up?

Reason I ask is many think their car is overheating when actually the radiator is filled too full. It needs room for the coolant to expand as it gets warm.

If you fill it too full and drive it it will push coolant out making it look as if it is overheating. Often folks will then refill it and the cycle repeats.

Resist the urge to put any more coolant in. As long as the tubes in the radiator are covered you are fine.

Take the temperature with a dial meat thermometer placed directly into the coolant and let us now what the temperature is getting up to when it is looking like it is overheating.
 

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So, I started up the Model A and let it warm up a bit. It got up to 214 degrees and started to boil over with the cap removed. Then it started to backfire out of the carb. Flashes coming out of the carb. Would not idle any more and finally died. Total running time 5-7 minutes.
What do the experts (you guys) think?
 
Definitely getting too hot.

Are you advancing the timing after starting?

How confident are you that your timing is set correctly?
 
Wow. That seems like a short time to get hot and boil over. When you look into the radiator, do you have a lot of bubbles, as in leaking head gasket? Coolant in the oil, oil pan? I would diagnose the overheat first.
 
The Model T is an engine about half the output power wise of the Model A. The Model T is designed to operate without a water pump relying instead on the "thermosyphon" effect of heated water. As such the Model T tends to operate slightly below or even "at" the 212 juncture. Think to the one-lunger type engines which are "hopper cooled" and you periodically add water as it boils off.

The Model A is similar but on steroids - and relies in large part upon the water pump instead of thermosyphon to move the water around.

The 1928-29 Cars I would put "marginal" on cooling simply on the basis of size of the radiator. Ford himself saw the issue and attempted to correct it in the 1930-31 model years by increasing the area of the radiator by 25 percent.

The other aspect is that original Model A early radiators were quite "coarsely" round tubed and finned and a lot of reliance was placed on "flow" (hence the funnel top to distribute flow more evenly across the upper tank) Later radiators were better designed for cooling (more tube/fins) but by then had lost the funnel top advantage.

An original radiator is a remarkable and fairly rare thing - but I suspect not a long-lived thing is their original life. Hence the rise in the mid-late 30s in a "honeycomb" replacement which is a superior radiator cooling wise. But the honeycombs can only be boiled out, not rodded out, and they were pretty much a "cheap disposable" radiator in their day.

But we're also talking a cheap car which was "on its way out" in the pre-war period.

I was at the Epping Antique Auto Flea Market yesterday and there were a few used radiators around. One a VERY NICE looking original - the seller was thinking "above 400" which if he could assure having been cleaned or gone over might be a good price - but still an original "round tube" radiator non-funnel top. I deferred.

Another seller had a VERY nice looking "repop" radiator - oval tube (better cooling) about 12 fins/inch. (better cooling in three rows) Nice condition and seller claimed it was removed from a car where the owner was "upgrading" to an original radiator to make a "point car." Ask on this was $195. As I know the seller and he and I have dealt together before we were fortunate he accepted my offer of $150. I hesitate to say I "stole" the radiator as it looked THAT GOOD.

But this radiator I will have "boiled out." I don't think "rodding" is necessary - although unlike the honeycombs, it is possible.

It is disheartening when you can't seem to stop your car from boiling over. My Model A CC Pickup came with a honeycomb - but it was used for short trips/dirt hauling in the Paxton, MA graveyard, and probably used in that Model T modus (incipient boil-over). It would not go any distance until I replaced it with a better radiator bought from a hobbyist.

Joe K
 
THE GOOD NEWS IS THAT THE PROBLEM SEEMS TO BE RESOLVED! Ken B from the Ford barn offered to come over and take a look at things. He lives about 40 miles from me. He adjusted the timing that he said was way off and low and behold the overheating subsided!
He adjusted the point gap. Along with that he found that there was an issue with the ignition coil. I had another new one so we swapped that out for the bad one. He made a slight adjustment to the carb idle mixture setting. We went for a short cruise and everything seem better! ACTUALLY, IT NEVER RAN AS GOOD AS TODAY! He did think that the radiator could use a good cleaning and flush.
Any local guys that do radiator work?
Thanks again Ken. You were a big help. I can't thank you enough to give up your time to come over and help me out. Maybe some time I can repay the favor!
Bill
 
Speaking of radiators, the one in my A is a EUREAKA. I never heard of it. Anyone know anything about that brand?
 
Bill,
Glad to help. I will have to check with some of our club members for a radiator shop that works on Model A radiators. The one all of us used for years doesn't do them anymore.

Ken Brekke
 
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