Unpleasant Surprise :(

[bmwillia]

Some of you read my posts regarding the rattling noise in my transmission.

After reading the many suggestions I decided to pull the ****** and replace all of the bearings.

I ordered the bearings from Mac Van Pelt, removed the ****** and upon disassembly found a very unpleasant surprise.

It seams a ball from one of the bearings had come loose in the ****** and taken some chunks out of several of the gears. The throw out bearing was definitely bad but it seams the rattle was caused by more than just that unfortunately.

Well... Looks like I'll be making a call to Mac VP and placing a little bit bigger order than the last one.

 

[donald1950]

since it looks like that ball made it between the input and cluster you might want yo check the case in the area of the input to see if it is cracked. back in the 60s i broke a tooth off and got it stick between the input and cluster and it split the case from the input to the drain plug... don

 

[1937pickup]

Ouch, glad you found it before it did more damage.

 

[Mountaindoc]

That's too bad. I had the rear main bearing go out in mine about 6 weeks ago. The front half of the ball separator blew out into the case and I found what was left of it hanging around the shaft, but the ball bearings all stayed within the bearing and just settled at the bottom. How long did it make that noise?

 

[mrtexas]

You might consider advertising on this forum for good used gears. They will probably be better and cost less than new ones. I got a good first gear that way for one of my transmissions for less than half of a new one.

 

[Mac VP]

He's running the early type gears with the straight cut teeth. We stock those in our USED gear inventory, as well as having most of that stuff in NOS gears. Donald1950 is correct in suggesting that he check the case.....very possible that it cracked. He'll need to get it real clean to inspect the casting.

 

[jimTN]

That is a pre 39 so gears are plentiful and cheaper than 39 up cause it has a straight tooth cluster for low and reverse and the old style sync. Gears 32-38 should work just fine.

 

[bmwillia]

Thanks guys!

I plan on checking it for cracks. Can I just use kerosene and a scrub brush, or should I have it blasted?

Mac,

You'll be hearing from me soon. I do also have to say it is nice to have guys like you around to do business with. Very easy to talk to on the phone and very helpful.

Thanks!

 

[David J]

Brad , In your last pic the little brass ring is supposed to be part of the syncro hub . Make sure you replace the syncro hub . I have many NOS ones if you can't find one .

 

[rotorwrench]

I plan on checking it for cracks. Can I just use kerosene and a scrub brush, or should I have it blasted?

You can grit blast a case. I use glass beads but just make sure and wash the case out thoroughly with a brush and some soap and water. The grit likes to stay in there real well and you don't want it in there for sure.

A good solvent brushing will work OK too. If you have a magnifying glass you can usually see any cracks in cast. The spot between the input bearing bore opening and the coutershaft bore opening is a weak spot for this kind of damage. The thrust face in the back of the case it a little sturdier but it can crack too. If its a big crack you may not need a magnifier. If a person is concerned enough, you can take it to a machine shop or some other NDT lab and have them magnaflux it.

 

[bmwillia]

Thanks Rotorwrench! Good info.

David,

Here are some pics of the syncro hub and the brass ring on the second gear. The syncro hub has a brass ring on both sides and then there is the one on the second gear.

Where would the separated brass ring go?

 

[bmwillia]

I just realized I screwed up on that last pic.

the brass ring is supposed to go on the main drive not on the second gear.

But the question remains....

Thanks!

 

[bmwillia]

After further investigation, it appears that the ball-bearing escapee came from the sychronizer.

There are only 3 balls in the synchro and I believe there should be 6. Am I correct?

Thanks,

Brad

 

[David J]

I use all 6 as I think it helps give the brass a little more pressure . Absolutely clueless on the ring . PS the front of your mainshaft has issues also . ADDING ; The reason I said 3 is normal is that many 33-34 trannys I have taken apart only had 3 . Yes the parts book says 6 and I always use 6 myself so sorry bout the bad info . That's one of the nice things about this site - info gets corrected .

After further investigation, it appears that the ball-bearing escapee came from the sychronizer.

There are only 3 balls in the synchro and I believe there should be 6. Am I correct?

Thanks,

Brad

 

[barnfind08]

In that synchro there sould be 6 balls and 6 springs. there are no loose synchro rings.

 

[Buckelew]

I wish my ****** looked this good. Had a low-miles, late '38 with '48 gears pretty much explode two and one-half weeks ago. Two cracks in the case, busted retainer plate and the teeth on the main drive gear and one below it gone.

Pretty sure the retainer plate bolts backed out, or some junk got between the gear teeth. I didn't realize they could grenade like that under normal (35 mph) driving conditions.

I put an original '39 in the car and she's running great again. 150-mile trip yielded zero problems

 

[JM 35 Sedan]

Brad, If that case turns out to be cracked, and with that many internal problems, it may be less costly to just find another complete transmission in good condition. I seem to find plenty of '33-'36 transmissions in good condition.
Those copper alloy rings are actually bushings that are normally part of the drum and probably pressed in place. I don't recall ever seeing them as lose pieces in the transmissions that I have rebuilt.

 

[Mac VP]

The early synchro (shift fork groove in the middle like yours) is supposed to have all 6 balls & springs in place inside. It's important to have all six in there.

For some reason, you appear to have 3 synchro rings in there. There should be the two rings pressed into the synchro hub....as seen in your photos. The presence of a 3rd ring in there makes you wonder how they even found room to fit it in there. Obviously, it should not be there.

 

[itsa52]

Other than the pride of knowing the gears aren't chipped, if your not racing that thing, those gears will go a long while yet..
I have put trannies together (and been advised by the transmission shop to do so) with chipped gears and never really had a problem.
You may want to take a Dremel grinder and smooth the edges, and check for cracks in the teeth but those gears will still run.

 

[Gary-UK]

Re the checking for cracks, An early ford transmission builder over here once told me, when the case is empty stand it on end and tap it with a ring spanner. If its good it will ring like a bell, if its cracked it will make a dull thud. He then demonstrated this with two cases on his bench, one which was hairline cracked from the front to the drain plug and one which was good. They did make very different noises when tapped. Guess who's the cracked one was? Yeah mine!