Timing gear

Al 29Tudor

Al 29Tudor

Well-known member
Hell Barners,
Is it possible to remove the timing gear special nut using a cole chisel and three pound sledge hammer with the radiator in place or will I have to remove the radiator?
Thanks for your help.
Al Leach
 
It's possible, and unfortunately that's the way many have been removed. It isn't too bad to remove the radiator though.
 
Thank you Tom,
I was planning to replace the nut with the newer hex nut style. I guess I'll remove the cover to see the condition of the present nut.
Thanks again.
Al
 
The nut can be removed with the radiator in place. It is easier with the radiator removed. I also use the modern hex type cam nut. I can see no reason to take pains trying to remove the odball cam nut with a tool that usually doesn't fit. I have no qualms with useing a chisel and hammer to remove the old nut.
 
Al 29Tudor said:
Hell Barners,
Is it possible to remove the timing gear special nut using a cole chisel and three pound sledge hammer with the radiator in place or will I have to remove the radiator?
Thanks for your help.
Al Leach
Click to expand...

A word of caution, many a camshaft has broken just aft of the timing gear because someone used a hammer or some kind of an impact tool to remove or replace the nut. Not just Model A's.
Chet
 
Update,
First thanks Tom, Purdy and Chet.
Someone has beat the snot out of the special nut. I never thought of breaking the cam shaft by banging on it. So I ordered the special tool, new special nut and modern nut, aluminum gear with all the other pins spring and gaskets. I hope the removal tool fits then I'll put an original nut back on.
Thanks again.
Al
 
The model A camshaft is forged and doesn't break. The later cams were cast iron and would break. I don't believe that a model A cam has ever been broken by using a chisel. Its hard to find an A or B engine that the original cam nut hasn't been removed and replaced with a chisel and hammer
 
Al,

I had to replace a failed fibre/steel-hub cam gear two years ago.

I was pressed for time, and used an aluminum gear, keeping the same crankshaft gear.

Found the cam plunger spring broken in several places, so replaced both spring and plunger.

The job will be MUCH easier if you remove the radiator, and there is less chance of damaging the radiator with it out of the way.

(BTW: no nasty noises from the "evil aluminum gear" ;) )


Good luck with yours !
 
You can't use a cole chisel, but, you can use a cold chisel. [smiley face]. Probably more have been removed and reinstalled in this manner than the correct way. You can even do it with the radiator in place. If you decide to install a new nut, a rag between the gears will allow you to tighten the nut without damaging anything.
 
My "special tool" fits well, works well , and is just plain a better way to work on the motor. If I was on the road and had to change a gear I would pound it on and off. But I will use a proper tool any time I can. Just good workmanship.
 
The tool offered by the venders that I have used does not fit well and is a real pain to try and use. The mentioned tool is not the correct tool but a cheap
product that in no way resembles the tool that Ford used. People have used a cold chisel and hammer because they didn't have the correct wrench that the dealerships used. Now that a hex nut is offered, I can see no reason to bother tring to save the old cam nut. With the new hex nut, the timing gear will be easy to remove and retorque and the chisel and hammer will no longer be needed. Using a chisel and hammer to remove the old style cam nut harms nothing but is a common sence method to get the job done.
 
I just replace my gear awhile back. I removed the radiator like mentioned above. Also bought the special tool which did not work for me. Someone had use the cole chisel on the old one. So I also used a cole chisel to get mine off after the special tool did not work. I had to also put the old nut back on with the cole chisel.
 
Fred K-OR said:
I just replace my gear awhile back. I removed the radiator like mentioned above. Also bought the special tool which did not work for me. Someone had use the cole chisel on the old one. So I also used a cole chisel to get mine off after the special tool did not work. I had to also put the old nut back on with the cole chisel.
Click to expand...


I bought the tool years ago. It was made by Pete Wechler, who was the original owner of AC&R. Pete was known for the excellent tools that he made. I still have the tool and it still works fine on original Henry cam nuts once I file all the chisel marks out of them.

Tom Endy
 
Tom Endy said:
I bought the tool years ago. It was made by Pete Wechler, who was the original owner of AC&R. Pete was known for the excellent tools that he made. I still have the tool and it still works fine on original Henry cam nuts once I file all the chisel marks out of them.

Tom Endy
Click to expand...

Bert's now makes and sells the old AC&R tools I believe.
 
Special Coupe Frank said:
Al,

I had to replace a failed fibre/steel-hub cam gear two years ago.

I was pressed for time, and used an aluminum gear, keeping the same crankshaft gear.

Found the cam plunger spring broken in several places, so replaced both spring and plunger.

The job will be MUCH easier if you remove the radiator, and there is less chance of damaging the radiator with it out of the way.

(BTW: no nasty noises from the "evil aluminum gear" ;) )


Good luck with yours !
Click to expand...

Lucky you, I just replaced mine, didnt get a matching crank gear, just popped in a new aluminum gear at it real noisy.
 
I love all the **** talk about alum. Gears on the Barn
But yet you guys will have a spare gear under your seat
At all times and tools to fix the stock junk on the side of
the road.

Just saying.....
 
More comments - an early Barner's post mentioned jacking the engine up too high and broke his bell housing. Armed with that information I cranked up on the front engine mount to compress the springs and lower the mount instead of raising the engine too much.
Also Les Andrews didn't mention one more bolt under the side cover or the need for a special tool.
My gear is fiber with many teeth partially broken. I hope the aluminum replacement one isn't too noisy but I can't imagine doing this job along the highway some place.
You Barner's are really great - thanks for all your help and advice.
I'll let you know how it goes next week when the parts arrive.
Al Leach
 
I use either aluminum or bronze timing gears in all of mine. They are all silent and as far as I'm concerned, metal gears are forever. I don't haul an extra gear. I do have a couple of extras in my parts collection just in case I decide to build another model A
2731205-T600450.jpg
 
Re: Timing gear - Update

All you Barners set me up for a successful timing gear replacement, Thank you.
This is what I did: With radiator in place-
Loosened rear engine mount bolts and supported the engine with a jack.
Removed front engine mount bolts and cranked yoke down so the engine didn't have to be raised much to remove front cover. Swing Alternator out of the way.
Remove timing side cover - three bolts, removed front cover - eleven bolts.
Filed chisel marks off gear nut and the new tool fit fine.
Got ready to fight the nut off with chest against fender ready to haul on breaker bar and the nut came off with maybe 30 pounds of torque. Engine was in gear.
Removed fiber gear which has 9 teeth partially missing. Crank gear looks good so I left it alone. Chose an aluminum replacement gear, replaced spring and cup, and new original type nut. The aluminum gear is quiet.
To align the gears I painted the top of the crank gear timing tooth and painted a spot on the back of the timing gear so I was able to see those marks from the rear to align them. Torqued to 100 ft. lbs.
I was not able the check for backlash and didn't change the pins because I ordered a wrong number. The original pins fit tight and the nut pressed the gear on. I guess it took 3 to 3 1/2 hours to re-assemble but I worked slowly.
Ordered everything from Bratton's on Friday afternoon and had the parts mid afternoon the following Tuesday.

Thank you ALL very much for all your help.:D:)
I'd be in deep yogurt without you guys!
Al Leach
 
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