T5 Transmission Swap
- Thread starter mustang8
- Start date
But isn't your shifter location bad? Or maybe you have buckets? With a bench seat in the truck I don't think I could get away with that.
JSeery
Member Emeritus
Most people don't like (or can't use) the rear shifter position on the mustang T5s. But, it is a fairly simple and quick fix by swapping out the tail cone and shifter shafts for the GM forward shifter position. A LOT of T5 parts are interchangeable. I prefer a different approach to the shifter location issue, but the most common (by far) approach is to use the GM shifter position, it will place the shifter just in front of the bench seat.
willowbilly3
Well-known member
It's in a hotrod I built and the location is fine for that. I was just saying you don't need a WC
JSeery
Member Emeritus
Agree, but WC vs NWC really has nothing to do with the shifter location. It has to do with internal upgrades. The tail cone determines the shifter location and you can move them around at will, so shouldn't be any issue.
36coupe
Well-known member
JSeery
Member Emeritus
No, the only way to tell anything is with the tag attached and I don't even trust that! I'm sure the tags were correct on an original transmission, but things are so easy to change that it can be hard to tell. It is fairly easy to take the tops off and count the gear teeth. BUT, you need to know how to do it. If you are going to remove the top read up on it. You have to drive the pin out of the shifter rod and the cover does not lift off, it has to be moved to the side (just of few of the things you have to know).
I have never attempted it and don't even know if it would work, but you might try marking the input and output shafts and count the input revolutions per one output revolution for each gear.
Note: corrected the input vs output!
I have never attempted it and don't even know if it would work, but you might try marking the input and output shafts and count the input revolutions per one output revolution for each gear.
Note: corrected the input vs output!
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Roger/Sacramento
Senior Member
Heard
Well-known member
Lindsay...Even though there are a lot of threads here and on the HAMB about this subject, DD (V8Coopman) and I spent a great deal of time figuring all of this out. I'm sure he'll jump in here if I'm leading you astray. This is what we came up with....
First find a Camaro T5 NWC with the right gearing. I think these will be from '82-'86 Camaro v8. Then find a Jeep T5 4x4. While all of the Jeep T5's are NWC, there were a few that used a roller bearing under the first gear. Make sure you get one that does NOT have the bearing under the first gear. You will need the Jeep mainshaft, the Jeep 5th gear, and the 4x4 tailshaft housing. You will also need the B-7085 early Ford retainer.
Basically, what you are doing is using the Jeep main shaft and putting the Camaro gears on it.
Apparently there were two different 5th gear sets used in the Jeep. Since the 5th DRIVEN gear presses on the main shaft (which is now the Jeep shaft - 23 splines), you will need at least the 5th driven gear from the Jeep. And you may need both gears depending on what came with the Camaro ******. You'll have to figure this out. In my case, I only needed the Jeep driven gear.
The trick piece is a spline adapter to get from the 23 spline Jeep shaft to the 6 spline Ford so that you can use the standard Ford U-joint. Contact Tony over on the HAMB. He goes by Kato Kings I believe. He makes this critical spline adapter piece and also makes the adapter to bolt up the B-7085 which in turn allows the clam shell to bolt up. He will also drill and tap the Jeep main shaft so the Ford u-joint will bolt right up just like the standard Ford ******. He has all of this stuff dialed in just right in my opinion. Good stuff. Not cheap, but pretty slick.
First find a Camaro T5 NWC with the right gearing. I think these will be from '82-'86 Camaro v8. Then find a Jeep T5 4x4. While all of the Jeep T5's are NWC, there were a few that used a roller bearing under the first gear. Make sure you get one that does NOT have the bearing under the first gear. You will need the Jeep mainshaft, the Jeep 5th gear, and the 4x4 tailshaft housing. You will also need the B-7085 early Ford retainer.
Basically, what you are doing is using the Jeep main shaft and putting the Camaro gears on it.
Apparently there were two different 5th gear sets used in the Jeep. Since the 5th DRIVEN gear presses on the main shaft (which is now the Jeep shaft - 23 splines), you will need at least the 5th driven gear from the Jeep. And you may need both gears depending on what came with the Camaro ******. You'll have to figure this out. In my case, I only needed the Jeep driven gear.
The trick piece is a spline adapter to get from the 23 spline Jeep shaft to the 6 spline Ford so that you can use the standard Ford U-joint. Contact Tony over on the HAMB. He goes by Kato Kings I believe. He makes this critical spline adapter piece and also makes the adapter to bolt up the B-7085 which in turn allows the clam shell to bolt up. He will also drill and tap the Jeep main shaft so the Ford u-joint will bolt right up just like the standard Ford ******. He has all of this stuff dialed in just right in my opinion. Good stuff. Not cheap, but pretty slick.
JSeery
Member Emeritus
It is a version of the Mustang Cobra T5 that incorporates all the best features of the T5s. It was an aftermarket transmission sold by Ford Motorsports and was never installed in a factor car that I am aware of. You can purchase the parts and convert earlier transmission to the same configuration. Lots of nice features and a 330 ft-lb torque rating.
At one time (up until about a year or so ago) I could purchase them new for $1,100 and have them delivered to a local Ford dealer so free shipping. That was close to the price they were asking of WC rebuilds! I purchased several of them, had them all over the place. Then all of a sudden the price jumped to around $2,000, still not bad, but almost double what they were.
"These transmissions feature tapered roller bearings on the cluster, caged needle bearings under the 1st, 2nd and 3rd speed gears on the mainshaft, double synchronizers on 1st and 2nd and steel blocker rings with bonded friction materials. Ford adopted this configuration for 1985 and up production T5's. Similarly, all Ford aftermarket T5 applications have been "World Class" since 1985. As the demands on this transmission were increased, gear materials were upgraded (8620 to 4620 to4615) and blocker ring lining materials went from paper to carbon fibre. In 1993 the pocket bearing between the input and mainshaft was changed from a needle bearing to a tapered roller bearing. This was only used in production on the '93-95 Mustang Cobra T5's but was adopted on many high performance aftermarket T5 applications including the T5Z."
Gear Ratios are 2.95/1.94/1.34/1.00/.63
M-7003-Z (The T5Z)
With the success of the added reliability to the T-5 brought on by the COBRA changes, Motorsport decided to offer the best T-5 ever by combining the COBRA changes with their popular 2.95 aftermarket transmission. One additional change was that the #053 counter gear was replaced with the #070 counter gear. This gear is dark in finish like the #068. Exactly why the change was made is unknown, but presumably the alloy of the #068 and the #070 is stronger. The resulting T-5 is rated at 330 ft/lbs. Some think the T5Z and the COBRA transmission are the same; others think the T5Z is THE World Class T-5 because it is the best T5 built by Tremec. It received a steel input shaft bearing retainer sleeve (for the throwout bearing) to rectify issues with wear that occurred on the aluminum retainers.
Just saw one priced for $1,700 plus $100 shipping, so maybe prices are coming back down! http://mustangpowerparts.com/t5z5sptr33.html
At one time (up until about a year or so ago) I could purchase them new for $1,100 and have them delivered to a local Ford dealer so free shipping. That was close to the price they were asking of WC rebuilds! I purchased several of them, had them all over the place. Then all of a sudden the price jumped to around $2,000, still not bad, but almost double what they were.
"These transmissions feature tapered roller bearings on the cluster, caged needle bearings under the 1st, 2nd and 3rd speed gears on the mainshaft, double synchronizers on 1st and 2nd and steel blocker rings with bonded friction materials. Ford adopted this configuration for 1985 and up production T5's. Similarly, all Ford aftermarket T5 applications have been "World Class" since 1985. As the demands on this transmission were increased, gear materials were upgraded (8620 to 4620 to4615) and blocker ring lining materials went from paper to carbon fibre. In 1993 the pocket bearing between the input and mainshaft was changed from a needle bearing to a tapered roller bearing. This was only used in production on the '93-95 Mustang Cobra T5's but was adopted on many high performance aftermarket T5 applications including the T5Z."
Gear Ratios are 2.95/1.94/1.34/1.00/.63
M-7003-Z (The T5Z)
With the success of the added reliability to the T-5 brought on by the COBRA changes, Motorsport decided to offer the best T-5 ever by combining the COBRA changes with their popular 2.95 aftermarket transmission. One additional change was that the #053 counter gear was replaced with the #070 counter gear. This gear is dark in finish like the #068. Exactly why the change was made is unknown, but presumably the alloy of the #068 and the #070 is stronger. The resulting T-5 is rated at 330 ft/lbs. Some think the T5Z and the COBRA transmission are the same; others think the T5Z is THE World Class T-5 because it is the best T5 built by Tremec. It received a steel input shaft bearing retainer sleeve (for the throwout bearing) to rectify issues with wear that occurred on the aluminum retainers.
Just saw one priced for $1,700 plus $100 shipping, so maybe prices are coming back down! http://mustangpowerparts.com/t5z5sptr33.html
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V8COOPMAN
Well-known member
The link below is one of the most-thorough and inclusive sites I have come across on-line which explains not only the history of the T5, but also a comprehensive compilation of parts used, also explaining variances and design characteristics allowing the assembly of custom combinations for unique vehicle requirements. The "T5Z" is also fairly-well detaileded in this lengthy piece. This one is worth "bookmarking" for anyone trying to learn about T5 transmissions. DD
http://www.pro-forceperformance.com/t-5_history.htm
V8COOPMAN
Well-known member
Heard explained his custom T5 conversion very well. What he possibly didn't make clear is "WHY", and "WHAT DID IT ACCOMPLISH"?
Heard decided that he wanted the smooth-shifting, along with the additional gear that is available in the T5 gearset selection to keep the flatheads in his little '36 3-w coupe and in his '35 pick-up in that "sweet" RPM band that only comes with a close-ratio 4-speed, as well as the 5th gear O/D for long-legged cruising. He also realized that the original torque tube banjo rear just can't be beat when considering the best suspension and geometry. We knew that marrying a T5 to a torque tube was possible, with a number of different ways to accomplish such......some ways better than others. We decided to go with the SHORTEST possible T5 that can be assembled using Borg-Warner factory parts. The transmission shown is only about 7-1/2" longer than the stock Ford 3-speed. But, it is right at 10" SHORTER than the "S-10" transmission that everyone talks about, or even a Camaro or Mustang T5, for that matter. It will bolt right up to the torque tube (once the tube and driveshaft are appropriately shortened) WITHOUT MODIFYING THE REAR SUSPENSION AT ALL. The Jeep 4X4 mainshaft with 23-splines and the corresponding Jeep 4X4 tailshaft housing require a little digging to source, but they're still out there. Heard noted the only two custom pieces which I've pictured below......the aluminum adapter that the clamshell bolts to (ANYBODY could build this piece on a drill press), as well as the 23 to 6 spline adapter to accommodate the stock Ford U-joint..........enjoy!