T-5 transsmission

trucker 46

trucker 46

Junior Member
Thinking putting S-10 5sp trany in my '46 Mercury 1/2 ton. Got most of the parts for conversion. Question is what you do with the cross member, behind the trany, without brutally butchering it. Truck is completely original with 3sp on floor. Thanks for any info.
 
Sometimes you have to bite the bullet and Cut. Modifying your car/truck means your changing the factory design.
PS I wouldn't use an S-10 T-5 bad gearing and weak.
 
There is a lot of info on here and the HAMB regarding T5s. I agree with OlRon but just finding T5s is getting harder and harder without just buying one done. There are two styles - non world class which are up to '88, and world class. I am runner ng a non world class unit in my avatar and I know many guys running them behind much larger engines. For the flattie, you are ok with the earlier unit. There are two different style bolt patterns however, the GM "H" style, and the later Ford/Camaro style. But, just about all of the innards of any of the T5s are interchangeable.

Bottom line, whatever you do T5 wise, make sure you are keeping the flattie in it's optimum rpm range, 22-2800 room in 5th gear. 5th gear ratio, tire size, and rear gear ratio all play a factor. There are formulas out there to help you determine your room at a specific speed.

Good luck and keep us posted on your progress ...
 
Does your '46 have open or closed driveline? If still closed and you have deep pockets, may want to hunt down or purchase a T-5 out of the Jeep that can be hooked up to the closed drive shaft.
 
I used a kit from Chassis Engineering that replaced the original cross member. If you're lucky they may still have something in stock. (They're closing!!!).
In the meantime, or as an alternative, check with Krylon 32 on here. He's done lots of T5 work.
Good luck.
 
When I cut the rear motor mount (transmission mount) on mine I left the left and right stubs and braced them to the new mount I fabricated out of channel iron. The clutch and brake assemblies mount to the left stub. Used a '82 S10 trans as I wanted the low 1st gear. Overdrive is 20%. If you are building a cruiser you should avoid the low 1st gear. A T5 will hold up fine behind a flathead. I would guess the S10 put out as much HP as a flathead. Did mine 15 years ago when T5's were plentiful. (Gave $50 for it.) Things have changed!
 
What work really good is to use the input shaft and gears from a Z-28 and the rear half of a S-10. I did this 5 years ago and am real happy with it.
T-5 transmissions and parts are getting harder to find. There is no Borg and Warner replacement parts available. Tremec has dropped all support as well. The only parts are from off shore manufactures.
 
RandyZ said:
What work really good is to use the input shaft and gears from a Z-28 and the rear half of a S-10. I did this 5 years ago and am real happy with it.
Click to expand...

trucker 46.....Using a T5 in that truck will make you have MUCH NEW admiration for it. The T5 will totally transform the enjoyment and usefulness of that truck, IF you begin with the RIGHT parts, as RandyZ has stated above. You DO NOT want to use an S-10 T5 as such. You want to use a NWC (non-world-class) T5 out of a Camaro or Firebird which will have the 2.95 1st gear ratio, rather than the 4.03 or 3.76 1st gear ratio found in many S-10 T5s. To that Camaro trans, replace the tail shaft housing with a TAIL SHAFT HOUSING, (and top cover) from an S-10. This moves the shifter position significantly forward, which will work WELL in your truck. If you also use an S-10 main shaft, you won't even have to move the speedo gear on the Camaro main shaft. The S-10 and Camaro main shafts will work with the Camaro gear set. These pieces will simply BOLT-together, and you have the gear ratios in the trans that will be totally useful and rewarding. Click on this link BELOW. It shows a similar swap. You're going to have to modify that center crossmember, but it is a simple operation if you plan it out properly. The rewards will be PRICELESS!!

http://www.systemv.us/clemmie/trans/t5/

Remember, the only part of S-10 that you should be interested in is the tail shaft housing (and trans cover with short shift shaft) which moves the shifter forward. Shown below is a Chevy (Camaro) case with an S-10 tail shaft housing (and cover) attached....exactly what you want to end-up with.

1451438_orig.jpg


I can try to help if you have questions. Also, you may want to click on and read my "T5 W/TORQUE TUBE" at lower left of this post for some more convincing reasoning behind the 2.95 1st gear Camaro gear set choice. Hope some of this helps.
 
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Thanks for a very detailed and comprehensive answer and that link is just perfect. My problem is finding suitable parts. Here in south western Canada it is almost impossible to find used S-10 trany. I did find one 600 miles north of here and that is electric speedo, so that would be '88 and newer I guess. Something from Camaro is next to impossible and if you find one it would be $ 2000-3000. I can't spend that much.
I also found 4sp overdrive out of 1/2ton ford, which is actually better fit if I move the engine 2 1/2" forward, which would be almost no modifications. I am considering both ideas, what do you think? Back to T-5, surely S-10 trany I think can handle 90-100 HP of flattie no? Any 4cyl in S-10 has more power than stock flathead. Also the gear ratios are interesting, that is quite the difference, I thought it doesn't matter, what the gear ratios, since you have 5 gears. In general I just hate to do any cutting to unmolested truck. But I believe you, the benefits of T-5 are tremendous. Keep in mind I am not after speed, just lower RPM.(4.11 rear) If I can do 65 - 70 mph at decent rpm I would be happy.
 
The truck gearing is too low for normal driving and with a 4:11 rear end it would only be used to pull stumps. It is possible to drive it like a 3 speed and rarely use 1st gear. $2k to $3k is the price range for a new transmission.
 
46, I got my cross member as well as all my other suspension parts for my coupe at www.weedetrstreetrod.com
Dale is very helpful. I'm not sure they'll have what you need, but it's worth a look.
I have a 1993 S-10 World Class trans with the 3.76 1st gear. I'm running a 3.25 rear ratio and have great results. A tailshaft conversion will be needed to change from electronic speedo to mechanical. I used this trans because I got it for $50!
 
“which is actually better fit if I move the engine 2 1/2" forward, which would be almost no modifications.“
This statement has me stumped????...... Mark
 
Sorry Mark if I offended you, I guess I should have say, that I do not have to butcher or cut or add cross members and that way keeping the truck stock original. What I meant, minimal modification. Thanks for a reply anyway.
Sid
 
I’m not offended at all. I don’t understand how moving the engine 2 1/2” forward meant “almost no modifications at all”......Mark
 
flatford8 said:
I’m not offended at all. I don’t understand how moving the engine 2 1/2” forward meant “almost no modifications at all”......Mark
Click to expand...

Yes. How do you move an engine 2.5" forward with no mods? Mounts, fan, radiator, exhaust, clutch, fuel, electric. I'd rather cut a crossmember and modify a driveshaft---nobody is going to see those. Perhaps you can remove the old crossmember (and save it) and fabricate a replacement?

As far as gear ratios, first and Overdrive are the most important to look at because the middle gears just get you from first to OD. Take the first gear ratio and multiply it by the rear end ratio. The result is your combined ratio, and yes, it's important.

You want a combined first ratio somewhere near 12:1 +/-. As an example, an S10 with 4.03:1 first gear with a 4.11:1 rear end gives you 16.56:1.

Change that to a 2.95:1 first gear and you get 12.12:1. Or keep the S10 gears and swap the ring and pinion, but that may cause overdrive problems if the gears are too tall.
 
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Mark,
Back to your original question: Here is a link to the substitute cross member I used after drilling out the rivets and removing the original cross member.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cie-es-2167/overview/
This option gives you lots of room for most any transmission you would care to use and is pretty easy to install. Save you old, original cross member and you can easily revert back to the factory configuration.
dw
 
as far as moving the engine forward, I have a 46 pickup with 2 sets of front motor mount holes , I have my first truck that was originally a 6 cylinder, and I changed it to a v-8, Is it possible the truck is set up to move the motor mounting forward? I never seen an arrangement like this before. I was planning on building the truck and making some safety mods. is this frame type something rare? I don't want to make any changes to a frame that has more value than an ordinary frame. I'm just wondering if it is some sort of multiple use frame? or is it designed for a bigger engine like a 337 or a Lincoln 12 cyl?
 
Thanks for all the inputs and suggestion, I take them all very seriously. On topic of moving engine forward is relatively easy. Don't forget these trucks also used to come with 6 cylinder. (much longer than V8) There is lots room between fan and radiator(6") so you do not have touch fan or rad. The only thing you have to do shorten rad hoses. On clutch cross shaft you simply drill 2- 3/8 holes for a cross shaft bracket, at the bottom frame rail 2 1/2" forward and extend push rod for a clutch. There are 2 sets of motor mount holes in frame brackets, as "fordestes" correctly stated. You do not even have to go all the of way to the front. I made nice bracket to span both holes. and mount the engine on it. 2 1/2" is not very much, the fuel line and electrical is not effected, there is enough slack, you can't even notice that there was anything done.
 
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