Sun machine question

Don

Don

Well-known member
How do i find the correct aligning spot to put a pin in the adapter. When i got the machine the adapter was gone along with the shaft from chuck to dist, made the shaft ,but dont know if the slots are supposed to be in line or not.can i put a dist on the adapter and set the timing to sero ,in middle- then turn adapter to set flash on 0 degrees then mark my hole. Thanks don p
 
Last edited:
Great question.

I've never figured out how the adapter indexed so that you can set the distributor's initial timing. Somebody knows.

But, here's some extra insight. Not all Sun machines have holes in the jaws for the adapter pin as shown in your picture. Some do, some don't. A model 504 may have one, a 506 may not.

Additionally, I have not seen any index marks on the degree ring that could be used to register the adapter with the ring. Since the ring rotates, seems something is needed to set it so that it matches the adapter. I might be missing something.

My own conclusion might be wrong, and I've never remembered to ask Mark Saunders or Bob Masters that question ... sure asked a lot of other ones.

See if we get some help.
 
I have used my 2 Sun dist. machines for 40 years. The pin is not necessary, just
rotate the degree wheel at the base. It's truly no big deal.

Dudley
 
I guess all your interested in is to see if the mechanical advance works for the correct degrees and the vac makes a change in the right direction a certain amount of degrees. I would still like to have everything start at 0 degrees. Don p
 
Don,

That's why the degree wheel(at the base) moves. At a very low RPM adjust the
wheel with the vacuum on, with the distributor installed.

Hope this helps,Dudley
 
Crabs are easy as you can line up the number one on the cap with the degree wheel zero mark and go from there.
Just happens number one on the cap is always lined up with condensor mounting screw.
Helments are a bit harder.......
 
Dudley,

If you are setting up a helmet distributor (from his avatar, it looks like Don is), how do you set 4 degrees BTDC of initial advance?
 
Hoop,

Timing light, if you have a " dial " TL. If not, measure the crank pulley diameter,
times " pi ", divided by 360 degrees, will give you HOW far apart each degree is.
Add the number of distances you need, mark with chalk, and time the engine.

Dudley
 
d.j. moordigian said:
Hoop,

Timing light, if you have a " dial " TL. If not, measure the crank pulley diameter,
times " pi ", divided by 360 degrees, will give you HOW far apart each degree is.
Add the number of distances you need, mark with chalk, and time the engine.

Dudley
Click to expand...
There is no pointer or TDC mark on any of the early engines. He would have to determine TDC on his own and install a pointer. That is why the distributors are set on a machine or fixture.
 
You need to determine TDC for any accuracy depends what you desire as results.
Many ran for years with to timing recorded on the pulley.

Ronnie
 
I read somwhere that when pistons 2 and 3 are equal no 1 is at tdc ,then a mark could be put on pulley. And a timming lite used. I tried this with the dist at o degrees mounted on engine and just as i broke over tdc, the points fired. I think the first mark on dist is 4 deg.
 
Search TDC and interference method on here or HAMB for an easy way of accurately locating TDC on an assembled flathead.
Then...non mathematical and easy way of finding degrees on crank pulley: Steal a protractor and a drawing compass from an eighth grader studying plane geometry.
Draw a circle on a piece of cardboard the same size as your pulley OD, draw a somewhat larger circle around that one concentrically, and then center your protractor and rule in maybe 30 degrees worth of lines. Probably 5 degree steps will be adequate for most.
Cut out and discard inner circle and just hold the outer circle over the pulley to mark of the needed range of degrees. You can make permanent notches or if you want nothing to show paint a segment of the pulley with liquid paper and pencil in your marks. The liquid paper will vanish with a quick spray of carb cleaner.
I believe a Sun was capable of indexing a flathead distributor for initial timing, so it seems there must be a way of indexing the parts to accomplish that??
For all interested in the things, the magazine "hot rod deluxe" did a good article on Sun machines and on a company that has some parts and manuals available in the last 2 or 3 issues.
 
flatjack9, Ronnie, Bruce,

I agree with all, if the engine, with the head off, wasn't TDCd then the whole
thing is a crap-shoot or guess. The variables include, crank grind, key way cut
on both crank and crank gear, and the slop in the distributor drive tangs or gears.
I think there is some amount of seat of the pants for tuning, adjusting, and feeling
were the engine likes the timing.
 
Don,

Sun most likely made a fixture that fit the adapter and produced a 4 degree advance. The strobe could then be indexed to the degree ring, or vice versa.

A "work-around" could be to set up a distributor on a fixture such as the KR Wilson which allows you to easily set the initial advance. Run this distributor on the Sun at idle rpm, rotate the degree ring to 4 degrees and paint a mark on the machine.

I'm several thousand miles from home and cannot test how reliable this is, but it should be as close as you can get without the genuine Sun device.

The reason I posted that this was a great question is that fans of the Sun machine normally do not understand it's limitations. Few people calibrate their machines correctly ... for example.

I know Bubba Jim and Bruce understand your question and the issue.

Anyhow, if you are going to mess with early Ford V8 distributors, you also must have a KR Wilson distributor fixture to play with.
 
Don P., Try Bob Masters for Sun Machine parts, repairs, and information. His e-mail is Rmasters3@insightbb.com .According to Supereal on the EFV8 forum,
" Masters is very helpful and accommodating. If he doesn't have what you want, I doubt anyone does." Ken
 
Ken that one sure nice picture of tour car and the dogs. I just got a sun Machine and all the books. Got a lot to learn with this machine.
 
I do have the krw timing fixture.and you cant get much closer using this devise,but i do like to see the flashes to see if bushings are worn and to see if vac advance and mechanical advance are working, don p
 
Don,

You might try what I suggested ... set the initial timing on the KRW, run the distributor on the Sun and mark the strobe at 4 degrees. Then, remove the distributor and adapter. Reinstall and see if the marks hold the same spot.

The Sun Distributor Tester as much as anything was a MONEY MAKER for the shops and garages that used them. The razzle-dazzle is hard to beat, and strobers are certainly at the top of the list of neat, usable vintage shop stuff.
 
I'm not trying to confuse, just trying to help, but maybe I don't understand the
question and/or the remarks on the set-up. Can you try a different approach, please.

Thanks, Dudley
 
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