Sun machine question

[Hoop]

Dudley,

The early Ford V8 distributors, know as "divers helmets," were designed to be setup off the engine rather than installed on it. Since the distributor is off the car during setup, there is no need for a pointer or marks on the pulley.

This was a Ford specialty.

The Sun Distributor Tester was designed for a lot of different cars which in most cases had their initial timing set with the distributor mounted on the engine and with pointers/timing marks on the pulley or the flywheel.

So, the Sun machine requires some extra effort to set the initial timing.

A lot of guys guess. Even those with Sun machines. They will not readily admit it.

What Don was asking was how can you set the initial timing on a diver's helmet when, as you posted, the degree ring spins and there's no reference to indicate exactly the degrees of fire that will occur once the distributor is installed on the engine. Or, how do you know 0 degrees on the Sun machine is going to be 0 degrees on the engine ... the helmet distributor only bolts on one way with no adjustment between the distributor and engine. The adjustment is made within the distributor and must be made using some sort of "fixture."

Yes, you can rig up timing marks and a pointer and a timing light, BUT that was not the way the system was designed.

The question was how do you do it with only the Sun machine to guide you.

 

[d.j. moordigian]

Hoop,

Thanks for your reply. I know about most of what was written in this thread,
except for the KRW dist. fixture, which makes sense. I have done all styles but
the 8BA & V12. Not once has anybody ever asked " were " the timing was set.
I have noted that the tab on the side of the dist. in different location, returned
it to that spot if I O/H the unit. You Guy's got me thinking now, thank you, and
will look at the indexing and fixture on my machines.

Dudley

 

[Bruce Lancaster]

Ford timing procedures: Big Ford dealers were expected to have a strobe machine (proprietery Version but similar to Sun) for both timing and dwell setting, along with all other testing of electrical bits. Small dealers and service garages could use the KRW fixture for timing and dwell checks, though it was considered a second choice by Ford. There were also at least several aftermarket fixtures (generally timing only) and aftermarket dwell gauges, like the Echlin/Bear ones, and a KRW-like device from Ford Canada.
Ford also published a field-expedient timing method for the '42-48 and Lincoln requiring only rulers, and had information out there allowing essentially the same approach on helmets.
An early flathead patent from Ford, I think about 1934, shows a simple timing fixture similar to the most common aftermarket type that was to be welded right on the firewall of production Fords!
Getting the thing to or near 4 degrees initial is useful, but remember that timing preference varies a bit between individual engines and some experimentation is worthwhile. There is really no need for timing marks for static timing on '32-48 engines, but they ARE useful in checking the centrifugal curve, a very importany performance consideration.

 

[Hoop]

Sometimes it's difficult (impossible) to get people to accept that some simple tools work better at times than the more complex ones.

I like setting up early distributors first on the KRW then tweaking them on the Sun.

The last set of points brought to me for installation (I'm a hobbyist, not a professional) in a '34 distributor had the rubbing blocks so poorly cut that they threw the phasing so far out that anyone sticking with guessing and feeler gauges would have been completely fooled. In that particular case, the KRW immediately showed up the problem ... I believe faster than a Sun machine would have. Not that the Sun would not show it, but with the KRW the problem was immediately recognized.

(With the Sun, as with the KRW, the dwell is set for each set of points then the total dwell is checked. With the KRW, an experienced person would spot the phase problem before getting to checking the total dwell. ONLY MY OPINION, but using only the Sun in this particular situation would result in more chasing of the discrepancy.)

Again, for those who enjoy getting the most out of their tools, Don asked a very good question. There's probably a very good technique that somebody is not sharing with us ... maybe not.

 

[jake197000]

i have the factory blue print of the shaft in the flathead timing fixture used in the sun machines.i have made several of theses shafts using the print.the slots are not in line with each other.if i remember they are 45 degrees apart.i can check that for you but im leaving town for a few days leaving tonite so i cant ck till i get back.