strongberg 97 logo
- Thread starter lenmissy
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1952henry
Well-known member
Same carburetor, but the small logo 97 was original equipment on Ford cars, commercials, and trucks. The large logo was a replacement. I will credit Uncle Max and the legendary Bruce Lancaster for this information. The large logos seem to hold an advantage value-wise. I guess it is a size thing.
Flathead Fever
Well-known member
There are also different shaped Stromberg 97 bases. One is "D" shaped and the other is a triangle shape. I have "D" shaped carbs with the large 97 logos and both triangle based carbs and "D' based carbs with the smaller 97 logos.
Here are some pictures of an original pre-war Edelbrock sling shot intake and an original Eddie Meyer 8BA intake. Both have carb mounting flanges that more or less match the triangle base carbs. The "D" shaped carb bases are bulky and overhang the manifold, they do not look as nice as the triangle base carbs (see photos) I would look for carbs with the same base as the intake you plan on using.
Here are some pictures of an original pre-war Edelbrock sling shot intake and an original Eddie Meyer 8BA intake. Both have carb mounting flanges that more or less match the triangle base carbs. The "D" shaped carb bases are bulky and overhang the manifold, they do not look as nice as the triangle base carbs (see photos) I would look for carbs with the same base as the intake you plan on using.
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Charlie ny
BANNED
Len,
Take care when building your Strombergs....some triangle bases had
an additional idle circuit evidensed by a small diameter tube protruding into each throttle bore in the iron base. This effects the type of bowl you should
use. The bowls that were used with this type of base had factory reliefs
at the lower end of the venturi to clear the small dia tubes.
Mixing these can drive you nuts with poor idle characteristics.
Charlie ny
Take care when building your Strombergs....some triangle bases had
an additional idle circuit evidensed by a small diameter tube protruding into each throttle bore in the iron base. This effects the type of bowl you should
use. The bowls that were used with this type of base had factory reliefs
at the lower end of the venturi to clear the small dia tubes.
Mixing these can drive you nuts with poor idle characteristics.
Charlie ny
34flathead
Senior Member
this is my first hotrod, ford with flathead so i am learning alot.
just wanted to say i have heard those triangles also refered to as arrowheads, i guess because of the shape.
and one old parts shop owner has told me, when i asked for replacement base gaskets, that they came on 48s not 97s, but i have them on the 97s on my little '34 now, and i have seen many 97s with either base on them.
also thanks again Uncle Max, i have not yet installed the carbs you built for me, but when it warms up again that is first on my list.
rich
just wanted to say i have heard those triangles also refered to as arrowheads, i guess because of the shape.
and one old parts shop owner has told me, when i asked for replacement base gaskets, that they came on 48s not 97s, but i have them on the 97s on my little '34 now, and i have seen many 97s with either base on them.
also thanks again Uncle Max, i have not yet installed the carbs you built for me, but when it warms up again that is first on my list.
rich
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stromberg81
Member
Lets see, Triangle, V, Arrowhead. I call them Batwing bases..I think the additional idle circuits in the batwing base are better for larger CI engines. What you don't want to mix-up is the D base a Batwing on a multiple setup 2x2, unless it's a 3x2 setup and the center one is the Batwing, tuned for idle. The bowls without the factor reliefs on lower end of the venturies can be filed to fit properly over the tubes so the bowl and base meet for proper matting and gasket sealing...
Duane..
Duane..
Bruce Lancaster
Member Emeritus
If you look closely at small logo carb bodies you will see "67" cast right above the "97" logo in smallish letters (many '48's had their "48" PN designation there too)*.
If the top is original, it too will bear a "67". The 67 (and 48) are from the Ford part number prefix to identify the model of carb in the parts system, since top and body castings of the 97 differed from 48, and 48 parts differed from model 40...
Thr 97, of course, is just a size designation and was not a model designation to either Stromberg or Ford...only to hotrodders.
From my experience, I think all small 97 carbs were Ford. I don't know if that means all large logos were sold outside of Ford channels or not...
Many 48's now carry 97 throttles and tops, and of course you can find carbs with any physically possible combination of parts.
*the 81 carries a tiny "52" on its body...a 1935 number. It was in use in England and Europe on 60's a year before it came here as an econo carb for 85's and two years before any 60's were sold in the USA.
If the top is original, it too will bear a "67". The 67 (and 48) are from the Ford part number prefix to identify the model of carb in the parts system, since top and body castings of the 97 differed from 48, and 48 parts differed from model 40...
Thr 97, of course, is just a size designation and was not a model designation to either Stromberg or Ford...only to hotrodders.
From my experience, I think all small 97 carbs were Ford. I don't know if that means all large logos were sold outside of Ford channels or not...
Many 48's now carry 97 throttles and tops, and of course you can find carbs with any physically possible combination of parts.
*the 81 carries a tiny "52" on its body...a 1935 number. It was in use in England and Europe on 60's a year before it came here as an econo carb for 85's and two years before any 60's were sold in the USA.
1952henry
Well-known member
How so?? Inquiring minds want to know. You are always a cure for curiousity.
uncle max
Well-known member
Holy Batwing! It may/may-not, should/shouldn't be noted that on the EE-1-1 (Batwing) replacement 97's, the airbleeds for the idle jets are just .054", compared to the .093" bleeds in all other 97's, 48's & 81's. (The airbleeds are located in the small channel, adjacent to the idle jets). This should be considered if swapping the early bodies onto the late bases; the airbleeds can be drilled to bigger size... It's not a good idea to use the late bodies on the early bases. They're hard to undrill.
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stromberg81
Member
Happy Holidays All...theres my uncle with great info..
Duane..
Duane..
Bruce Lancaster
Member Emeritus
The 60 and its carb: 60 HP engine was introduced via Ford England in late 1935, hence the 5 in its numbering. It was sold in American type Fords< I think, but also in the Model 62, a purely European model sold in England, France, and Germany...eventually became the Matford in France, was militarized in 1940 by the British army with 221 engine and big wheels, the 221 version became the luxury Pilot after the war.
If you look in the 1936 USA service bulletins, you will find the 60 carb offered as a retrofit for high fuel economy on low speed delivery 221's, before it became indigenous as part of the 1937 and following American V860.
The first generation European only 60 had a LOT of odd features. Found one once in a French junkyard, and only found any documentation on it years later.
If you look in the 1936 USA service bulletins, you will find the 60 carb offered as a retrofit for high fuel economy on low speed delivery 221's, before it became indigenous as part of the 1937 and following American V860.
The first generation European only 60 had a LOT of odd features. Found one once in a French junkyard, and only found any documentation on it years later.
Wltr_Mitty
Junior Member
With the introduction of the more economical 97 in 1936, the Ford Service Bulletin for March describes differences between the new 97 and the model 48 which was also supplied on 1936 model cars. The bulletin provides an illustration of the 97 next to a 48 and includes a blow-up of the large logo 97 for identification purposes.
Would Ford have used a replacement carburetor for illustration and identification purposes at the same time that it was introduced?
Would Ford have used a replacement carburetor for illustration and identification purposes at the same time that it was introduced?
Don Rogers
Well-known member
Bruce Lancaster
Member Emeritus
Yep...my deductions based on the existence and non-existence of the Ford prefix seem to be wrong. The Strombergs shown in 1936 and those in the rebuild instructions from Ford (around 1939...bulletins) are indeed large logo! Clearly all smalls are of Ford origin, because of the prefix (also found as 48 on SOME 48's), but now it certainly seems Ford used the large logo too.
Shame on me...I first got hold of Service bulletins in about 1963 and have been reading them ever since, and never noticed that!
Now...another factoid upsetting my deductions and assumptions:
Service Bulletin subject number 9510, Stromberg carb reconditioning...Ford's official manual for dealer level carb rebuilds, dated 11-25-1940...some of the Srombergs shown clearly have the "arrow" bases that I always believed came along in the 1950's...others have the expected D. There are several clear pictures of each.
Both of these things raise another thought: Ford was always worried about the possibility of having production halted by outside suppliers having a labor strike or a disaster. In the Case of Model A Zeniths, Ford started producing small numbers of its own so that it had full production capability available if Zemith and Holley failed to deliver. I have seen a Detroit Lubricator (somewhere in my basement) with a clear Ford script F near its date codes. Ford produced its own 94 carbs, again maintaining a small production facility that could increase supply if Holley had a problem.
What about the Stromberg years?? Did Ford allow a key part to be supplied by a single outside source...or did they produce some on their own for insurance?? Mounting flanges on Ford built Zeniths differ from those on Zenith and Holly Zeniths. There are two different bases on '37--49 94's...and I think one marks Ford carbs, also marked on the bodies with an F. Could it be that Strombergs with a "67" were Ford built and the early big logos Stromberg built?? Dunno...just speculating wildly, but why would Ford, during the depression with lots of labor unrest around, allow an interruption of its long term policy of having its own backup?
Shame on me...I first got hold of Service bulletins in about 1963 and have been reading them ever since, and never noticed that!
Now...another factoid upsetting my deductions and assumptions:
Service Bulletin subject number 9510, Stromberg carb reconditioning...Ford's official manual for dealer level carb rebuilds, dated 11-25-1940...some of the Srombergs shown clearly have the "arrow" bases that I always believed came along in the 1950's...others have the expected D. There are several clear pictures of each.
Both of these things raise another thought: Ford was always worried about the possibility of having production halted by outside suppliers having a labor strike or a disaster. In the Case of Model A Zeniths, Ford started producing small numbers of its own so that it had full production capability available if Zemith and Holley failed to deliver. I have seen a Detroit Lubricator (somewhere in my basement) with a clear Ford script F near its date codes. Ford produced its own 94 carbs, again maintaining a small production facility that could increase supply if Holley had a problem.
What about the Stromberg years?? Did Ford allow a key part to be supplied by a single outside source...or did they produce some on their own for insurance?? Mounting flanges on Ford built Zeniths differ from those on Zenith and Holly Zeniths. There are two different bases on '37--49 94's...and I think one marks Ford carbs, also marked on the bodies with an F. Could it be that Strombergs with a "67" were Ford built and the early big logos Stromberg built?? Dunno...just speculating wildly, but why would Ford, during the depression with lots of labor unrest around, allow an interruption of its long term policy of having its own backup?
Don Rogers
Well-known member
Bruce, The arrow or batwing intake manifolds started showing up in 1939 according to The 1938/39 Ford Book. So I'm guessing thats when the carburetor base was changed.