Spring shackle battle on a '35

Don Cape Cod

Senior Member
We got the old shackles out of the spring & radius rods, no problem. Got the new shackles in the spring, no problem. Now I'm at it again battling the radius rod ends! I have been here before, and usual end up with bashed ends but working shackles. I'd like to come up with a reasonable method in spite of the fact that I don't have Henry's original tool. I do have an el'cheapo "porta-power" and am trying to figure out a metal harness that would allow me to use it in some fashion. There again, I'm hoping someone here will have a decent method! Thanks!
 
If you're building tooling for a Porta-power, you might consider building something that will pull the shackle pin in rather than pushing it in. When you push on it and there's resistance, the bushing tends to expand in diameter. When you pull on it and there's resistance, the bushing tends to neck down. I realize we're talking thousandths or parts of thousandths of an inch here, but a thou can be awfully large in a situation like you're facing. FWIW. Good luck.
 
I feel for you and I have only done this one time, no expert I used and made several tools for that project and so far its the one that stands out, something I did was used two flat steel bars with three holes each, the two outer holes using bolts to pull together one center hole had to be large enough to pass the casing and the other Center hole fit the stud with washers or an old side link spacer, tedious and it took several bolt lengths, beers and days to get all four corner's done, and I ground them down in a lathe several thousandths to a descent press fit I believe I started with +7 to start with way to tight for me. I hope it makes sense and wish you the best. Wouldn't do it for a grand. And I'm hungry........:D
 
There should be an interference fit - not simply a press fit for the shackles pins to accomplish the job they were designed to do. About .753" / .7535 is correct.

The pins must absorb the entire torsional twist applied to them when the spring oscillates.

The pin was designed to be pressed in. The K R Wilson tool designed to do this job looks like a C-Clamp. It has alignment 'plugs' so the mechanic is assured the pin is going in straight as well as a sleeve that fits over the pin to maintain the shape / not allow the pin to distort.
The pin is threaded into the working end of the clamp (actually a press) to the point wherein it (the pin) bottoms out on the sleeve. Thus, you are pushing on both the pin and sleeve simultaneously.
I can send you a photo of the tool if you like. Perhaps that will help you if you choose to design something similar.
 
Hi Kube , i'd like to see a picture of this tool as it's a job I will have to undertake by the end of the year. Could you post it here, regards Dan.
 
the K R Wilson tools are posted. The pushing tool has to fit over the shackle center stud and push on the perimeter of the steel outer casing. the tool has to push the shackle straight into the hole so both ends of the tool have to be aligned. The K R W tool books are reprinted and you can get copies from Winfield Tool Works 437 West Broadway Port Jefferson, NY 11777
 

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Drive or burn the stud out ,then cut the remaining tube with a hack saw threaded through the hole . Wound some 60 grit sand paper around a drill or bolt using 6" of masking tape 3" on the grit side ,polish out the hole before driving in the new oiled stud,
 
There have been posts on this from way back on the Old Barn, where mention has been made of using anti-seize and now oil as a lube to help the stud go in easier. My view is that using a lube defeats the requirement that the stud outer shell be tight in the bore and not be inclined to rotate. Accordingly, I would clean out the bore with a .750" reamer (which will not cause the bore to become enlarged as could any type of grit) then clean the bore and the stud shell with laquer thinner or acetone, and then apply some red locktite which will serve as a lube going in, but when cured will prevent rotation.

Sometimes the center stud will have collapsed in the insulating material and has worn the bore out-of-round. Depending on the severity, the worn spot(s) can often be welded up with a TIG and then finished back to round.

As mentioned several times, as they come the OD of the stud shell is almost always too large and must be reduced to allow tight installation, but not so tight that the outer shell collapses halfway in.

The above applies to the solid bores. The studs will usually install as they come into spring eyes, as the eyes tend to "give" enough.

We have made tooling that can be used in a hydraulic press where possible, or with a big mutha Proto puller that pushes the stud into the bore. As posted above, needs to push on the outer shell, not the center stud alone.

The studs usually come with nyloc-type nuts and no provision for cotter pins. We s-can the nylocs, drill the studs and use castle nuts and cotter pins. Looks like original and cannot come undone...
 
Well, a KRW tool was located. Still no easy task under the vehicle. I had one halfway in manually when I determined we needed a tool or homemade setup to finish it without having it mushroom. The KRW tool did the work, though it took a piece of pipe on the breaker bar to have enough force.
The other side shackle was left in the freezer overnight. We used the KRW again and it started in well, but needed a lot of persuasion. I don't think chilling it made any difference. The next mistake was when I suggested,"hey, lets use your air impact to finish this. Well, before we knew it, about a 1/4" left to go, it started to mushroom! Well, close enough for government work! So the air impact was not a good idea.
What I'm wondering is, is there a moder update of these shackle? Since most of what I work on are not show cars, I would rather an easier assembled, but good working type of shackle. Thanks everybody!!!!!
And yes, though not done but perhaps every two years,I'm going to devise a tool!
 
I measure the new sleeve going in, it's usually quite a bit bigger than the hole... I chuck the stud up in a drill press, or lathe and use emery cloth or sandpaper, whatever I have to reduce the size to a .001- .002 press fit. I take a washer or two that fits over the stud, put a nut on the stud and use a garbage-bound socket as a driver... with a lube... and yes, I have done this, it works, and is not loose in the hole... Karl
 
Does anybody have an approximate angle that they install the studs to so that they do not have to be torqued to align with the spring?

I'm assuming that the goal is little to no static torque when the car is at rest. Correct?

I'm getting ready to replace mine and am planning on matching whatever orientation the originals are in. Just wondering if there is something that I am missing.
 
Years ago, there was a parts store not far from me that had rubber bushings that replaced the steel original bushings. I think Speedway has nylon bushing. Those original bushings are rediculus. But if you have to win one of those original trophys, knock your self out. Walt
 
JM put me on to these shackles. They just eliminate the problem of driving/pressing the shackle pin assembly. The bushings are urethane and fit just right around the shackle pins.

It's funny how different people are sensitive about 'improving' the various mechanical parts of our cars. I wouldn't give up the 6V electrical system, or mechanical brakes because I am convinced they are fine if maintained. I On the other hand, my feeling is these shackles are just a better solution, and if you can deviate a little bit away from 100% judging correct, you will have improved the suspension. Others will have different opinions.

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As I said you polish out the stud hole using a simple reaming method .If you have limited resources .This does not take hrs of machining and messing around ,All you are doing is duplicating what goes on on the spring were the spring gives as you drive in the stud in ,the grip is minimal but does the job . A little lube is a great help ,Of course you are not reaming it out excessive.You can use a socket or something that will drive on the out side ,If your hole is to small then yes you will compress the outer casing of the stud ,I have done this more then once and it works well .
There have been posts on this from way back on the Old Barn, where mention has been made of using anti-seize and now oil as a lube to help the stud go in easier. My view is that using a lube defeats the requirement that the stud outer shell be tight in the bore and not be inclined to rotate. Accordingly, I would clean out the bore with a .750" reamer (which will not cause the bore to become enlarged as could any type of grit) then clean the bore and the stud shell with laquer thinner or acetone, and then apply some red locktite which will serve as a lube going in, but when cured will prevent rotation.

Sometimes the center stud will have collapsed in the insulating material and has worn the bore out-of-round. Depending on the severity, the worn spot(s) can often be welded up with a TIG and then finished back to round.

As mentioned several times, as they come the OD of the stud shell is almost always too large and must be reduced to allow tight installation, but not so tight that the outer shell collapses halfway in.

The above applies to the solid bores. The studs will usually install as they come into spring eyes, as the eyes tend to "give" enough.

We have made tooling that can be used in a hydraulic press where possible, or with a big mutha Proto puller that pushes the stud into the bore. As posted above, needs to push on the outer shell, not the center stud alone.

The studs usually come with nyloc-type nuts and no provision for cotter pins. We s-can the nylocs, drill the studs and use castle nuts and cotter pins. Looks like original and cannot come undone...
 
25% from verticial .As I said you could use WD40 as well .My posts are not meant to override all the other good subquestions , Hopefully they will make up there own mind as to the best way to go Ted
 
25% from verticial .As I said you could use WD40 as well .My posts are not meant to override all the other good subquestions , Hopefully they will make up there own mind as to the best way to go Ted

My point regarding using a lube of any type is that the lube WILL make installation easier BUT it will also make it easier for the stud shell to rotate in the bore after installation and during operation. Therefore, it is good if the outer shell DOES seize in the bore once fully and successfully installed. (That is why original studs are so difficult to remove.) Getting it in is only half the battle; getting it in and having it be tight enough is the other half...

The above applies to the bores in the perches, wishbones, and rear axle housing (or radius rods 35-36) spring hangers. As mentioned, the spring eyes are a different matter; having studs that are a little over-size could be beneficial in that application. Ford used 7/8" OD studs in the spring eyes for 32-34, maybe to keep them from rotating easily? but then went to 3/4" starting in 1935... wonder why???

"subquestions" you meant "suggestions?" ... BTW, my intentions are the same as yours...
 
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