Sleeves Needed Here?

Scotty's 52 F3

Scotty's 52 F3

Well-known member
You guys already answered my questions about the pitted deck surface. What do you think about these two cylinders?
 

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Not sure how deep those pits are, but those score marks look deep enough to warrant repair.
 
What's the current bore and what bore are you going to? You would have to measure the depth of the grooves and then double that. That would be the required overbore. And then determine if the block would take that overbore. If not, you would have to consider a sleeve.

If the grooves are .030 deep, it would require a min of .060 overbore to clean it up. And .040 deep then a .080 overbore, etc.
 
Scotty's 52 F3 said:
You guys already answered my questions about the pitted deck surface. What do you think about these two cylinders?
Click to expand...

I would look in your area for a real good machine shop, maybe one that has access to a CNC mill, this is what we use here. On the CNC those bores can be "moved" slightly to actually require boring it only 1/2 the depth of that gouge, we just went through this very recently for a member up here. Am working on him now, his block had the exact issue as yours, a gouge most likely caused by a broken ring!

It can also be accomplished with a conventional boring bar setup but not as easy!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. The statement mentioned above about measuring the "depth" of the gouge is how it's done. You start at that point! It's also going to come down to how much oversize you want to bore it, the gouge depth MAY be moot point??
 
Sorry guys, I know you need more info. The best I can get in there and measure, the first pic is the deepest @ .025"-.030". The wider one is roughly .010" at deepest point. It is standard bore.

If I end up using this block I was considering going 3.312" bore. My truck is still running so maybe my current block is OK. I "MAY" have a crack in exhaust port. Slight dry trail down from cracked exhaust manifold. Condensation I hope. I won't know until I tear it down.

I was thinking as rusty as the bores are, the pistons were beat out of it. The wider gouge almost looks flame cut though.
 
That's kind of what happens with a broken ring. It always gouges where the combustion gasses go through. The broken ring pieces don't help any either. They can gouge out material too. If you wanted a big bore then it looks like you won't have to lose sleep about going way oversize since you already have a reason to. If you haven't yet, get the block checked for leaks and have them sonic test the cylinder walls to see how thick they still are. Don't need to spend good money after bad.
 
I haven't paid for this block yet. I have pressure checked it. I fabbed up block off plates and put tank valves on them. Pumped up with bike tire pump. I did it with water in jackets and with air alone. No leaks I could find. I dye checked for cracks. Found one tiny crack starting. Has not been to a machine shop yet.
 

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I just included a couple images. I checked the entire engine. Nothing found at pan rails, cylinders, ports or anywhere cracks typically form.

I may be able to have a buddy Mag it where he works.

Gary, I wish we had a really good machine shop in Tucson. I may have to go out of town for my machine work.
 
Sounds like you just need to go .060 or .080. If there's nothing locally, several shops in Albuquerque that would find that a routine job.
 
I am not certain how it works but if you bore those worst cylinders to the biggest oversize you can and they do not clean up then you just keep going to the sleeve size, wrong? Do you bore differently for a sleeve than an over sized piston?
 
Ross, you haven't steered me wrong yet. If I don't find a good shop in Phoenix, I may be making a 7 hour or so trip when I'm ready for my machine work.
 
You might check with these guys, I saw favorable words about their flathead work:
Morrison Auto Machine
5434 W Glendale Ave.
Glendale AZ 85301
623-937-4705
 
Thanks Ross! I'll have to check them out.

You're going to have to tell me how you built your engine so I can build mine faster.
 
Frank Miller said:
I am not certain how it works but if you bore those worst cylinders to the biggest oversize you can and they do not clean up then you just keep going to the sleeve size, wrong? Do you bore differently for a sleeve than an over sized piston?
Click to expand...

Depends on if you want the sleeve to sit on some material in the bottom...works fine if you want to go the size where you gave up on the normal bore but if you want to go smaller you get a notch in the bottom.

Offset with a normal boring bar is easy just stick a piece of shim stock with the size you want the offset between the centering paw and cylinder wall.
 
When machining for sleeve, a lot of shops leave a step at the bottom so the sleeve won't try to move. If the bore job goes through the wall of the cylinder then the step would have to be there in my way of thinking since there is less to hold the sleeve. I'd prefer to sleeve the bore than offset the cylinder center. There have been more than a few 221 blocks bored & sleeved for 3 3/16" pistons. If you use a standard size sleeve, they usually go through the cylinder walls. JB weld has been successfully used to install the sleeves.
 
It came as a package deal with a fresh Merc .010/.010 crank and rods. I have a running engine I'm planning on rebuilding.

The seller let me take it free until I check it out. Said if it's junk toss it. It's not great but, it's not junk. He did lower the price.
 
If you're going to 3.312, those marks aren't going to be an issue. The little crack you showed is totally typical and of no worry at all. Some of us have seen cracks in that specific place so many times, that we claim Ford had a part number for it! LOL
 
I appreciate all the feed back and expert advice. I have seen some of the blocks you guys "fix" on this forum. This one didn't seen nearly as bad as some.
 
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