Serial number size

[Licensed to kill]

Putting the correct number on the legitimate engine in your legitimate car is not "altering the manufacturer's serial number" in any way.

That is my thinking as well. To those that warn of the legal implications of "altering the VIN in any way", are you suggesting that grinding off the VIN from a replacement engine and restamping it to match the number from the original engine or frame is Illegal??. If so, then when registering the car, do you use the frame number or the replacement engine number? If you use the engine number (because that is the visible one) what happens when the VIN is discovered to be for a 1930 coupe and your car is a 1931 sedan?. If you use the PROPER frame number, would you not fail an inspection because the VIN on the engine doesn't match the registration?. Seems to me that you are just looking for trouble by NOT updating the engine VIN to match the car.

California's laws are different. Stay out of that state. Don't listen to anybody from that state. Don't let your daughter marry anybody from that state. Anything you eat or use in that state probably has a warning that you will get cancer.

Of course I may be biased, being from Minnesota where everybody is above average.....

Sound advice.

 

[triumphleroy]

Texas used the engine number as the Vehicle Id Number until around 1951 I believe ? The tile came in an envelope that told you to raise your hood and check to be sure your title matched the ENGINE NUMBER !

 

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Hi Brent,
Its found on the 2nd page of the owners manual at the very bottom.

As Brian said, page 2 of the manufacturer’s original owner’s manual.

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Thanks guys for responding. I knew it was listed in the Instruction Book, but I read above where it was stated to be in a "manufacturer's manual" --which I had spent time searching at the archives and had not seen a Manufacturer's Manual other than foreman's logs had serial numbers listed. I thought maybe there was a different book. Also, what is an Owner's Manual? When did Ford begin using that term for the Model-A??

 

[Paps31]

Thanks guys for responding. I knew it was listed in the Instruction Book, but I read above where it was stated to be in a "manufacturer's manual" --which I had spent time searching at the archives and had not seen a Manufacturer's Manual other than foreman's logs had serial numbers listed. I thought maybe there was a different book. Also, what is an Owner's Manual? When did Ford begin using that term for the Model-A??

Manufacturer’s manual, owner’s manual, instruction book, serial number, engine number, VIN number ...

WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN?

The obvious answer ...

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[M.W.Miller]

When using the stamps first practice on a piece of masking tape to line the numbers up and make good impressions. then transfer to your frame or engine block. and use a hammer with good surface area.

 

[Chris Haynes]

Texas used the engine number as the Vehicle Id Number until around 1951 I believe ? The tile came in an envelope that told you to raise your hood and check to be sure your title matched the ENGINE NUMBER !

V8 Flatties had no engine number. The number was on the transmission. Henry was a proponent of interchangeable engines.

 

[Chris Haynes]

Thanks guys for responding. I knew it was listed in the Instruction Book, but I read above where it was stated to be in a "manufacturer's manual" --which I had spent time searching at the archives and had not seen a Manufacturer's Manual other than foreman's logs had serial numbers listed. I thought maybe there was a different book. Also, what is an Owner's Manual? When did Ford begin using that term for the Model-A??

Simply put it is a manual supplied by the manufacturer. I'm sorry if my lack of using the correct term confused you.

 

[Cool Hand Lurker]

Here is a link to the Instruction Manual PDF
http://www.motormayhem.net/wp-uploads/2009/04/Model-A-Instruction-Manual.pdf

 

[Russ B]

I just found a proper set of stamps on eBay after looking for a while. It even has the A and the star, and both 1’s , a 6 and a 9. I will check if it has the late 6-9, when I get it,but I could see the early 6/9 in the photo.

I am getting ready for my Terry Burtz block. Twenty years ago a CA CHP Vin verifier officer insisted on “blue plating” my car, even with the original engine number matching the registration. So the engine stamp number is for my satisfaction as my dad bought the car new.

But eBay is another source for stamps, ...just have to be more patient until a proper set shows up. ...and you need to look at the fonts carefully before buying.

 

[Gene F]

Stamping an engine while it is still in the car is a challenge. Or so I hear....

 

[Chris Haynes]

Although it is a common practice it is illegal to remove or modify a manufacturers identification number. Meet the wrong LEO and you could have a very bad day.

 

[Ted Duke]

Model A numbers are NOT a VIN. Rebuilders commonly restamp them after rebuilding.

 

[Cool Hand Lurker]

If the engine number is the same as on the title, WHY would any officer ask about it in the first place? Does California assume that everybody is a car thief? Also if you are replacing the engine, at that point it is only a replacement part. Only an idiot would put a part on with a wrong number for that car. Don't do it. The only thing you are doing is giving the officer reason to believe the car is stolen. He then has no choice but to impound the car until the judge tells him what to do. Wrong number, wrong outcome. Correct the number and don't start an investigation for no reason at all. COMMON SENSE.

 

[BrianH]

This seems like something you do and just don't tell anybody.

 

[katy]

FWIW, the booklet that came w/my 1951 Ford says "Owners Manual" on the front cover.

 

[Ernie Vitucci]

I lived in California for 50 years...The state people were always a pain in the ***. Arizona is a much nicer place to live and much less expensive place to live...Ernie in Arizona

 

[JayJay]

California DMV is, indeed, a nightmare. I'm sure we all have DMV stories, but here's mine:

After my Dad died (2014) I sought to transfer title on his and my Mom's car to me so that I could save on insurance (use my multi-car discount, as I was the only driver). My Mom at the time was 94 years old, blind, deaf and had pretty severe dementia. The title required both signatures to transfer. So I went to DMV armed with a copy of my Dad's death certificate and the power of attorney from my Mom specifically stating that I had the authority to act on her behalf for automotive (among other things) matters. Should be straightforward, right?

Nope. The DMV opined that since my Mom was alive, she alone had the authority to sign the affadavit of my Dad's death making her the sole owner. I tried to tell them that she was 94 years old, blind, deaf, had dementia and was confined to a memory care facility, and could not see where to sign, or unerstand what she was signing, and that I had the authority under the POA to sign for her. Nope, she had to sign. Next person...

Went back and forth over multiple visits with more forms, and different people telling me different things, until I finally got with someone with some logic and empathy. So I took my Mom to the DMV, held her hand while she signed an "X", filled out a witness statement that I had witnessed her "X" as a valid signature, and finally we got the title transferred to me. It only took three visits (each of which was a half day because I live an hour's drive from where my Mom lived). In hindsight I should have waited until she died, but I wanted to put the car on my policy to save several hundred dollars a year.

On a more positive note, I've never had anyone blink an eye about registering a Model A, even thought the engine number isn't 14 digits long line the computer wants.


JayJay

 

[brokenspoke]

Plus saying your intentions on the internet....pricless

 

[Gene F]

I just wonder if it's almost safer just to take an existing registered car over to the inspection station, and ask for the state to assign a vin number? I have a streetrod that was assigned a number in West Virginia (yes retained the year), and Ohio recognized that no questions asked. Before we did that though, we validated that with the Ohio State Highway Patrol inspection station. They said yes no problem, just needs to have a factor VIN, or a state inspection vin from any state. On the other hand, I hate to open up a can of worms...