Rusty 8BA

[RalphG]

So what are the chances of me getting this engine to run without major expense? The engine in this 53 Merc has been sitting for I don't know how many years with the heads and intake manifold off. Hood was shut but no doubt snow blew in and melted. I blew a lot of rust dust out of the intake holes today. Sprayed the whole engine with used hydraulic oil so it can soak in. I'm thinking there could be rust damage down around the pistons sides.

 

[flatford8]

Hard to say why it was taken apart in the first place. You may do more damage trying to turn it. I would take it apart and see what’s going on in there..JMO....Mark

 

[RalphG]

Hard to say why it was taken apart in the first place. You may do more damage trying to turn it. I would take it apart and see what’s going on in there..JMO....Mark

My guess the original (last) owner took it apart to un seize it and never finished the job. So it could be rusted solid. Or the block cracked from water entering the top end and freezing.

 

[tubman]

If that was just any old 8BA, it might be OK to screw around trying to get it to start, and so what if something goes major league wrong? That, however is a Mercury, which I remind you has a very useful crankshaft. There is a chance the crank is good. If it were mine, that's what I would try to determine first.

 

[RalphG]

If that was just any old 8BA, it might be OK to screw around trying to get it to start, and so what if something goes major league wrong? That, however is a Mercury, which I remind you has a very useful crankshaft. There is a chance the crank is good. If it were mine, that's what I would try to determine first.

Yes, that is a good point. As much as I'd like to get this 53 into driving condition (soon) I certainly wouldn't want to damage a desirable Merc engine.
Maybe disassembly is the way to go.

 

[corvette8n]

I was given a couple of rusty blocks from a Ford barner, my plan is to put one in a plastic 55 gal drum and let it soak in a mixture of powdered citric acid and water, unfortunately I will have to wait until spring as everything is stored in a portable garage now.

 

[Ol' Ron]

This might be a good block. These are getting hard to find. Everything else can be found. unfortunately, it's gona be expensive. Removing the cam, valves and pistons can be a chore and the chance of damaging the block in the process is great. Do not drive the pistons out, this can crack the cylinders. Soaking the block in a barrel of Molasses for a coupla weeks might loosen things up a bit. The engine was taken apart for a reason.

 

[TomT/Williamsburg]

Perhaps a 55 gallon drum filled with a 50/50 (? not sure of the ratio) mix of molasses and water would go a long way to reduce the amount of rust and then subsequent damage trying to take it apart. Nothing is inexpensive when it comes to a flathead unless you are extremely lucky which, so far, I am not! LOL!

 

[markdtn]

Mine looked a lot worse than that when I took it apart. It could have been saved but it was already .080 over and would have had to go .125 plus a sleeve to fix. I traded it to the machine shop plus some money for a block that went .030. He said he would use it someday. Hard to know until it's apart, but I would not give up yet from what I see.

 

[rotorwrench]

I've seen worse brought back to life. The 8BA block still has a lot of meat in the cylinder walls but the pistons are likely goners. A person can take a small hole saw and open the pistons up where you can carefully use a saw to cut kerfs and bust the piston out. Cast aluminum can be busted out in chunks if you cut them right. If the decks aren't too crusty they can work as is but may need a light deck cut it they are too pebbled. Valves can be a pain to remove but they will come out too with persistence and the right combination of tools. Hopefully, the tappets and cam are still oily. The crank should still be plenty oily unless a lot of moisture got down into the pan. If the coolant was drained or at least had a lot of antifreeze then maybe there will be no freeze up problems.

It's going to need a bore job so the pistons are a given. New main & rod bearings are expensive and its a big question mark about how well the valves will come out. It's not going to be inexpensive to rebuild but then none of them are these days unless you already have a bunch of new parts stashed away. The best you can do is pay the machinist for his work and put the thing together yourself. That's the only way to save any money on the flathead overhauls.

 

[RalphG]

Actually my brother did the rebuild on the motor in my 52 Merc.Way back in the late 70s when he was just getting into the heavy duty mechanic business. I know he replaced at least one piston, and all the rings of course. Valve job and rod bearings, not sure what else but it sure runs nice. So I've got a little advantage on my side there if he has the time to work on this one.
I did a rough micrometer check on the cylinder bore this morning. Something between 3.16 and 3.19 . Was going to dump some oil+diesel down the top of the engine to fill up the pan but could not get the oil plug in the pan. I don't even know if its the right plug and don't want to get too rough with it. It was a real stretch even for my long arms without having the car jacked up on blocks. Later.

 

[fordwife]

That sounds like standard bore [3.1875] so you are in luck if you have to rebore.

 

[RalphG]

That sounds like standard bore [3.1875] so you are in luck if you have to rebore.

Good to hear. My brother did not have to rebore the 52 block when he did it almost 40 years ago but it had not been sitting seized and rusting for years either.

 

[Bored&Stroked]

Chances are very slim . . . it will have too much rust in the bores, so it will at the very least need to be rebored, new pistons and new rings. It will also need a valve job. Now - if you can find a good set of pistons/rings on the cheap, might be able to get it all running for $1000 - $1500 total . . . but that is just doing some very basic work, nothing fancy, no balancing, no speed parts, etc.. Also, who knows the condition of the crank, rods, bearings, etc . . .

I would soak it and take it apart as carefully as possible - so as to not hurt the block and hopefully preserve the bearings (if they're any good). Worth some good winter fun!


Maybe you have a local shop that knows these engines (that is key) and can do the basics and you do all the disassembly, cleaning and reassembly. If the block is good, I'd sure save it!

 

[RalphG]

Chances are very slim . . . it will have too much rust in the bores,
Maybe you have a local shop that knows these engines (that is key) and can do the basics and you do all the disassembly, cleaning and reassembly. If the block is good, I'd sure save it!

I have full confidence my brother is qualfied to handle the job on the flathead. After all he has almost 40 more years experience since he did my 52.
Pretty sure I can get him interested. He had to drive over to check it out the night the car was delivered. Just have to talk myself into spending more money on what was supposed to be a parts car.
I actually sat in the drivers seat this evening after a major clean up. Just dreaming of watching the road roll under that big old hood.

 

[trahilaloid]

Why are the heads off if the cylinders aren't rusted and it turns over clean it put the heads on and fire it don't forget the zinc additive for the cam that's a lead cooled motor too the heads are off replace the valve seats and valves with harder ones always replace valve stem seals and why did you use hydraulic oil do you realize how flammable that sh@t is

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[3739ford]

Don't rush it! Just went through something similar and listened to some wise people on here and used the 50/50 mix and let soak. My Merc block was stored inside for the past 20-25 years with the heads and intake off, but used as a table to saw lumber on with saw dust mixing with oil that set up harder than concrete. The valves were a nightmare also. I would go out after letting it soak for 4-5 days and take a piece of wood and lightly tap the pistons. After two weeks still stuck tight I turned the block over and filled the cylinders up with 50/50 and let soak. I kept flipping the block until it finally sounded different one day. Tapped more and they started to move. As I said the valves were a nightmare and would make a preacher cuss. Have patience, and good luck.

 

[RalphG]

Why are the heads off if the cylinders aren't rusted and it turns over clean it put the heads on and fire it don't forget the zinc additive for the cam that's a lead cooled motor too the heads are off replace the valve seats and valves with harder ones always replace valve stem seals and why did you use hydraulic oil do you realize how flammable that sh@t is

Flammable? Outdoors with plenty of ventilation I have no worries. Used hydraulic oil is a lot cleaner than used motor oil which was an advantage for this job. I also use the same method to rust proof the underside of vehicles I drive in winter salt (not the old ones).
I've never yet used a zinc additive in any old engines, and I've got a few. I've heard the talk but in all honesty engine valves seem to last longer these days then they did 50 years ago.

 

[Bulligen]

Do you have any better photos of you new Merc yet?

 

[RalphG]

Do you have any better photos of you new Merc yet?

Figured maybe I was overloading the forum with pictures of this old 53 but, since you ask. I know some will recoil in shock and ridicule but I used an old plastic ice scraper to scrape off the worst of the lichen on the hood and roof. Then a filthy old towel soaked in diesel fuel and oil and a few hours of polishing brought out a shine to what paint remains. I think Turtle rubbing compound will improve it even more but the hood is looking a lot better than it did. That white roof is a bit more of a challenge.