Not getting fire!! Won't start. PLEASE HELP FAST!!

You have already received lots of good advice. I suspect that somewhere in all your parts changing you left out something simple yet vital. I would not be surprised if it is the insulating washer on the condensor. Here is a photo of that washer.

http://www.brattons.com/uploads/images_products_large/17630.jpg

Unfortunately, it sounds like you may not be familiar enough with the assembly to be able to understand where it goes.

Do you have a Model A Mechanic's Manual or any Model A parts catalogs that have diagrams that might enable you to double check the assembly sequence of the parts that you have changed?

It is important to step back and take a fresh calm look at everything and use a systematic approach to check each point in the electrical system. If you can't find the problem from what has already been posted, you might be better off calling the local club guy back and seeing if he or someone else has the time to come help you find the problem.
 
sturgis 39 said:
Make sure the points are open and test the resistance from the movable part of the points to the engine block. This should be an open circuit with the points open. The starter could be the problem as Mike V pointed out. The starter could be bad and taking all of the power away from the ignition. You could crank the engine by hand if this is the problem. I have never cranked a model "A" by hand. Never push on the crank is what I have been told. If you crank the engine wrong you can break your arm.

WHERE IS THE PRESIDENT OF THE CLUB WHEN YOU NEED HIM? Maybe somebody else will stop by and help.
Click to expand...

If you make the resistence test sturgis 39 mentions in his first sentence, be sure the key is off, or you'll be sending battery voltage into your meter while on the OHMS scale, which could damage the meter.

I don't recall any answer to the question: DOES THE ROTOR TURN while cranking the engine?
 
I had a problem yesterday with a friends car that ran great, I took the dist. off the engine to re torque the head , and when I reassembled the distributor on to the engine I got no spark. First I checked to see if the ignition cable was twisted in to tight,( it will short out and stop the engine) but it was OK. Then I took a test light to the points and found I would lose power when I moved the distributor top plate. It turns out the wire from the lower plate to the upper plate had a loose connection and it was just enough that it would work some times and not other times. Check under the upper plate if the wire is broken or loose.
 
Tom, 64 posts and I'm waiting for the same answer...".DOES THE ROTOR TURN
while cranking the engine ". And that was asked at the BEGINNING.
 
This is what it definitley "cannot" be -- but, very good to know information for emergency, make-shift distributor cap & body repairs while on the highway.

Many years ago I saw a young Model A owner tow his mystery Model A into an elderly shade tree mechanic's yard with: good fire at points, 1/4" fire at coil when points open & closed, & rotor turning; however, when distributor cap & body were assembled on distributor, no fire to plugs.

Shade tree mechanic immediately recognized the problem -- one of the two (2) metal distributor cap bail (clamp) bands broke & was missing -- young owner had clamped the top distributor cap with a wire extending from the broken distributor clamp's rivet holes in the distributor's metal body, over the top of the distributor's bakelite cap, then over to & atttached to the unbroken distributor metal clamp.

After the coil wire was connected in the top center of the distributor cap, (next to the makeshift repair wire), the coil wire fired, jumped sideways, & was grounded by the repair wire used as a makeshift distributor cap clamp; hence, no fire at plugs.

Shadetree mechanic's emergency fix -- instaled a long, small nail where clamp rivet was removed, secured distributor cap with (2) rubber bands -- young owner drove home where he had a few distributors with a few metal unbroken distributor clamps.

H. L. Chauvin
 
Just a thought, maybe he as it running and is to embarassed to tell us, after all he is looking for speed parts.
Brian T.
 
the car is still not running. Yes, I am looking for speed parts. No, I do not care what any of you personally think of me. So no I am not embarrassed. If I had too much pride I don't think I could post on here saying I didn't know how to fix it. I thought I had answered the question previously but Yes, The rotor is turning when the engine is turning over. I took the truck to a guy from the local model A club today and he looked at it but was not able to get it running. I just got home with the truck and still no luck. I don't know what the problem would be with wanting speed parts. I personally dont want to be the guy that has everyone pissed off honking at me because I cant go fast enough on the highway.
 
crotex,

While you are understandably frustrated on your end, I think the thing that is difficult to deal with on the other end is that it is difficult for anyone to help you diagnose the problem without feedback from you.

If someone says something like "Try A, B & C", you really need to try it and then reply, "When I tried A, B & C, the results were _________" (fill in the blank with whatever result you got).

For instance, I still don't know if you have the insulating washer on the condensor screw. If you don't, that might fix it. If you do, if you tell me, then I know we have eliminated that particular possibility.

If you go back and read all 4 pages of suggestions, there are loads of potential causes of your problem, but we have no idea if you have tried and eliminated those or not. We can continue throwing out suggestions, but until you communicate what has been tried and what results were obtained, there is a very small chance that any of us are going to be able to identify the problem(s) without seeing your Model A in person.

There is also a chance that you more than one problem or have something wired incorrectly since you have changed so many parts without following a diagnostic flow chart.

If you have a Model A Mechanic's handbook, I am surprised that following the diagrams and troubleshooting charts has not identified your problem. Do you have this book?
 
MCHinson brings up a good point about the thick insulating washer. Leaving it out won't neccessarily mean a short to ground, but the screw may bottom out before the condenser is tight to the buss bar. Then when someone tries to tighten it more the brass terminal in the condenser can turn and ruin the condenser.

I still can't believe someone being there in person can't fairly quickly find the problem.

OK, the rotor turns so we know the distributor cam screw is tight and the gears are good as well as the tangs on the distributor shafts. So everything mechanical with the dist. should be OK. Now we know for sure it must be an electrical fault. We also know the coil gets hot, and that's because the points aren't opening and closing the coil primary circuit.

1. If you put a volt meter or test light on the dist. primary terminal leading to the points, does it blink on and off as the points open and close? If not, then you may have a repro ignition switch with one terminal touching the gas tank, or a bad wire inside the armored cable, or the short wire between the upper and lower plates inside the dist. could be touching ground, or the points arm could be rubbing on the dist. cam. Do the easiest checks first; see if the points arm is rubbing on the cam. Only the rubbing block should touch the cam.

Someone checking this in person has immediate feedback and should be able to find the problem in a few minutes, but feedback to us should also solve it quickly.

Let us know what you find.
 
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The cars really don't have to run, if you enjoy looking at them, same goes with collecting Speed Equipment. I've had close to two dozen OHV heads for T's & A's over the past 40 years and only one in a running car.
 
fordgarage said:
Mr. crotex must be enjoying this. I imagine it is running fine by now, since his interest has moved on to planning all his hop-up equipment on the other thread.
Click to expand...

At first I thought the same thing but now I take his looking at speed equipment as a method to take a step back and regrouping before going ahead again. You know clearing his head.
 
fordgarage said:
This thread is the most entertaining in a long time!
You guys are like a dog on a plush toy - won't give it up.

Mr. crotex must be enjoying this. I imagine it is running fine by now, since his interest has moved on to planning all his hop-up equipment on the other thread.

Carry on.
Click to expand...

Agreed. "Entertaining" like a $20.00 bill on the sidewalk... attached to a fishing line, or a heated coin left for someone to pick up.

Everyone... please.... If you ask for advice, LISTEN to each answer and RESPOND to each question... if you want this great fraternity/sorority of Fordbarners to share their knowledge.

Newbies.... If you've bought 20-30 new parts/bits for your newly acquired (but previously running) "A", PLEASE put them on one at a time and keep track of what you do? (Cardinal rule)

Everyone (again)... Fordbarn's the closest we can get to my 1960's experience of being able to sit with and learn from my dad's pals at the garage on a Saturday morning (at a time when there were two "A's" on my block... one being used as a driver and one under restoration.)

Let's keep it civil. Let's share. Let's keep 'em running:)

JMHO
 
If you can't master a simple Model A distributor, maybe you should upgrade to a good quality magneto!
"THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"
 
Ok, Here is where I stand now. I have gotten the Model A running by wiring the coil directly to the points and the coil directly to the post on the starter. I had it put in correct timing and charged the battery for about an hour and it fires up and runs. BUT, Now I have a new problem. I can get it running by choking it but then it is hard to keep it running when I open the choke. I finally got it to run and idle for about 2 hours but then when I try to drive it it just constantly dies out and is harder and harder to get started. I ended up just pushing it back into the yard for the night.

My responce to all of the bashing some of you guys are giving me for no reason is that I just don't understand why. I AM looking for hop up parts. There is nothing wrong with that. I posted the thread asking about them while my Model A was not running. I knew that the problem was something small and was reassured by many of you that it was probably something small. I was never once under the impression that my Model A would never run again. So tell me, where is the problem with wanting to do upgrades when you get it going again?? Also Why can't I just be curious about it? I know many many people who have speed parts on their cars. Is there something wrong with all of those guys too?? I did not lie to anyone or trick anyone in anyway for entertainment in this thread. I can watch TV for more fun than that. I am on here only asking for advice and I get a few of you bashing me for no reason. NONE of you have ever met me. NONE of you personally know me, And I did not badmouth any of you. So what's is the problem?? To those of you who have helped me and used your time to give me constructive input I really really do appreciate it. It has helped alot and I am very thankful. I promise to offer my help to any of you with what I can help with in the future.
 
Right, then... this is it for me. TIME OUT!

With all respect, Crotex, when you say "I have gotten the Model A running by wiring the coil directly to the points and the coil directly to the post on the starter" I can understand why many Fordbarners are saying "Whaaaa?" If you don't see the internal inconsistancies in your sentence, PLEASE read it again.

I wish you (and your car) the best, but when you say "I can get it running by choking it but then it is hard to keep it running when I open the choke. I finally got it to run and idle for about 2 hours but then when I try to drive it it just constantly dies out and is harder and harder to get started. I ended up just pushing it back into the yard for the night" I'll confess that my head spins.

If you will reply (precisely) to the well-intentioned inquiries of the Fordbarners who have posted previously, you MAY find yourself on the road. Otherwise, you may have an "A" that will do nothing more than, as you say, "idle for about 2 hours."

From one who believes that a Stock "A" should run well and be dependable,

JWB
 
crotex said:
Ok, Here is where I stand now. I have gotten the Model A running by wiring the coil directly to the points and the coil directly to the post on the starter. I had it put in correct timing and charged the battery for about an hour and it fires up and runs. BUT, Now I have a new problem. I can get it running by choking it but then it is hard to keep it running when I open the choke. I finally got it to run and idle for about 2 hours but then when I try to drive it it just constantly dies out and is harder and harder to get started. I ended up just pushing it back into the yard for the night.
Click to expand...

Wait, wait, wait, lets finish with the electrical problem first then move on to playing with the choke at lease isolate the electrical problem to one thing then we can move to other problems.

"I have gotten the Model A running by wiring the coil directly to the points..." Bypassing the ign switch and depending on where you placed the jumper, the lower plate and the wire from the lower plate to the upper plate was also bypassed, "...and the coil directly to the post on the starter." bypassing the amp meter.

Are you sure these things are bad? With the key on and the jumper from the coil to the points removed will it start?
 
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Last $0.02, I promise.

The last time I experienced the symptoms alluded to in post #76, the "A" had a brittle/cracked exhaust manifold, a cracked valve cover, and a s****y exhaust manifold to muffler clamp.


Can anyone (please) help this guy?
 
The post has inspired me to send off a distributor core for rebuilding. If it comes home functional I may get Dad's Roadster running after quiting 28 years ago.
 
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