need starter advice

[atch]

Note: I either did or dreamed I posted something about this several months ago but searching hasn't turned it up.

My 1930 has been converted to 12V and the mechanical starter rod has been replaced with a solenoid and starter button. This is the way it was when I bought it last year. I haven't changed anything.

I'll post a pic at the end.

Several times (probably 5-6 times in the 11 months I've owned it) when I hit the starter button NOTHING happens. No click. No buzz. No sound or action of any kind. Up until now I've always been out on the road somewhere and I could roll it to start it. All it takes is to bump the engine over just a smidge and it fires right off. This has always been when the engine was warm. This time it is parked it in my level floored shop and it has happened again. Now I have no way to roll it so I really need to troubleshoot this and get it figured out once and for all.

I've searched all the vendors I know of in hopes that I can at least find out what I have; but no luck so far.

I've jumped across the two posts showing on the solenoid and nothing happened. There are only the large post on the top of the solenoid and the small post on the driver's side of the solenoid.

So does anyone have an idea of:
a. what to try to get thing working again, or
b. where I can get a replacement solenoid that matches what I have, or
c. any suggestions as to where I go from here?

Note: the wire with the blue insulation on it goes to a power outlet (phone charging, etc.)

 

[atch]

HOLD THE PHONE!!!!!

I just went to the shop to verify where the wires go. I wiggled the box that looks like a relay; with the green and red wires coming from it.

Just for grins I hit the starter button and, low-and-behold, the starter spun!

I'm probably still no closer to fixing this but there might be progress.

 

[atch]

I'd really like to find out what brand this stuff is OR where it came from. At least then I might be able to buy replacement parts.

 

[Kurt in NJ]

does the dash switch make power or ground to solenoid?
the little set screw i think is used to make contact with the starter post— that connection could be loose or dirty.
I believe restoration to original specifications eliminates the need for most modifications.
knowing if solenoid works by grounding or power will go a long way towards finding the correct solenoid
Have you tried cleaning the battery terminals??

 

[Bob C]

Here is the manufacture. https://trisisdesign.com/

 

[atch]

Thanks!!!

I'm now surmising that the black box is actually a breaker attached to the fuse holder. I didn't know that there was a fuse holder there and I didn't know what the black box did.

I'm going to go out and see if I can remove the black box/breaker. If I can and the fuse holder is actually there under the black box/breaker I'll put a fuse back in.

If that's the case what amperage fuse should I use?

And is the fuse holder shown on the website original to the car or did it come with the solenoid?

 

[atch]

Here is a pic of the black box/breaker. There is no reset button on it so I'm guessing it automatically resets after cooling down. That make sense?

In case the pic doesn't show it clearly the writing is 12V 40A. There is something illegible under the 40A. EDIT: It shows up better in the pic than it does "in person" and apparently it says 108 or 10 8.

Unless there's something I'm missing I can replace this with a 40A glass fuse. Or at least carry some 40A fuses in the car.

 

[atch]

Next time this happens I'm gonna jump out and pull/reinstall this breaker. I'll let you know if that ever fails to work.

 

[atch]

Oops. Now I'm really at a loss. I took this thing back out to reinstall it. Before I put it back in I hit the starter button just to see what happens. The starter turned without this thing in place.

Now I'm really confused.

Can anyone make sense out of this situation?

 

[30Murray]

That's a standard Ford 3-wire solenoid. The metal part on the end should be grounded. It looks like somebody trimmed the mounting bracket off - it is normally mounted on the firewall, which provides the ground. Power goes from the starter switch to the small terminal then to ground. From your photo, it looks like the bolt on the original starter switch is touching this end to provide a poor ground, maybe that's your problem. Look at the photo of my spare. The other item you are questioning is a fuse between the battery power and the rest of the car's electrical system.

 

[Klattu1929]

On a stock car the fuse supplies voltage to the terminal block on the firewall, then out to the ignition, lights etc. The starter is wired direct to the battery. On your car you will have to started verifying where the wires from and to. Make sure to write down as you go, otherwise you may kind of loose track and backtrack. then you can build a diagram. I personally am not a fan of fuses that reset, I would rather the blow and then troubleshoot. Be methodical.

 

[Klattu1929]

I should read this before sending, poor typing.

 

[The Master Cylinder]

Here is a pic of the black box/breaker. There is no reset button on it so I'm guessing it automatically resets after cooling down. That make sense?

In case the pic doesn't show it clearly the writing is 12V 40A. There is something illegible under the 40A. EDIT: It shows up better in the pic than it does "in person" and apparently it says 108 or 10 8.

Unless there's something I'm missing I can replace this with a 40A glass fuse. Or at least carry some 40A fuses in the car.

FYI, The circuit breaker is there to protect the rest of the wiring, has nothing to do with the starter. Those circuit breakers are polarity sensitive. it should be marked on the case by the terminals. The terminal with the brass rivet goes toward the battery. 40 amps seems a little high, I run 30 amps.

 

[Kurt in NJ]

it is a aftermarket solenoid modification kit to replace the foot switch.
since it worked with the circuit breaker/fuse out eliminating power to the rest of the system the solenoid probably uses a switch that makes a ground,that would make most modern solenoids that use power from a ignition switch not correct

If the battery terminals are dirty the starter can be intermittent.
That modified starter switch has the metal strip that is part of the original foot switch— some were made of soft copper and it can easily bend— that screw with a nut is what is used to make the contact just like your foot has to in a stock

 

[atch]

That's a standard Ford 3-wire solenoid. The metal part on the end should be grounded. It looks like somebody trimmed the mounting bracket off - it is normally mounted on the firewall, which provides the ground. Power goes from the starter switch to the small terminal then to ground. From your photo, it looks like the bolt on the original starter switch is touching this end to provide a poor ground, maybe that's your problem. Look at the photo of my spare. The other item you are questioning is a fuse between the battery power and the rest of the car's electrical system.

30 - sorry but it's not. It's the solenoid shown in the link in Bob C's response #5.


To everyone - now I see that the fuse is for the rest of the car's electrical system and has nothing to do with the starter. I'll be checking all the items mentioned herein to see if I can figure out what is actually wrong.

I'll be paying particular attention to the battery terminals.

 

[atch]

FYI, The circuit breaker is there to protect the rest of the wiring, has nothing to do with the starter. Those circuit breakers are polarity sensitive. it should be marked on the case by the terminals. The terminal with the brass rivet goes toward the battery. 40 amps seems a little high, I run 30 amps.

After reading this I went out to see if I had put the breaker in correctly when I removed/reinstalled it. While I had it out I also verified that the horn/lights/etc. don't work with it removed.

I'm still learning something just about every day.

 

[Keith True]

I still have a lot of those breakers in my assortments.We used them in the Macks.Mine are not polarity sensitive.We had three pos.ground trucks,and three neg.ground trucks,and just slapped the breakers in as we needed to.That solonoid used in that conversion is used in old Ford tractors.Instead of sending juice to that signal terminal to activate the solonoid,the juice is always at the terminal,and you hit a button that grounds it.Look at pictures of N series of Ford tractors.On the top of the trans it has what looks to be a dimmer switch.I only has ONE wire to it,that is the ground coming from the colonoid.If it had two wires one would be hot,feeding it,and hitting the switch would send juice out the second wire.

 

[ModelA29]

The "black box" is a circuit breaker. A fuse that opens when it get hot (overloaded) and closes when it cools (I've never seen one that is polarity sensitive - they are basically just a thermal switch). That protects the whole wiring system - except the starter circuit.
Your aftermarket solenoid may need some cleaning on the contacts.
Disconnect the battery - remove the 4 screws holding it to the starter - once it's off take some emery cloth and clean the contact on the starter and on the arm in the cover - once you put it back on you adj the screw so the contacts are solidly together. If it's loose it can arc and not make good contact.

 

[JayJay]

The "black box" is a circuit breaker. A fuse that opens when it get hot (overloaded) and closes when it cools (I've never seen one that is polarity sensitive - they are basically just a thermal switch). That protects the whole wiring system - except the starter circuit.

The circuit breaker in my car has a manual reset button. Call me old fashioned, but I like seeking when it’s been tripped. I sure wish I could find a source for these, I’ve been unsuccessful.

 

[German guy]

My take is...if you are not hearing anything..it is an electrical connection. I had a similar starter problem and went over everything to find it. Turned out that the main wire to the starter was down to one tiny strand of copper at the connector. Simple fix...but it took checking every other possibility before coming to it.