Need help with brakes

spinelll

spinelll

Senior Member
I‘ve been pulling (what’s left of) my hair out trying to adjust my brakes. I’ve found the source of one of the issues but I don’t know how to address it.
This video is only about 2 minutes long. Give it look. I appreciate any suggestions. Note that the video shows the front brakes but I have the same symptoms in the rear.

http://youtu.be/BsHkjtuNT2w

Thanks
Leo
 
Have you fully fully greased everything, that seems to be an issue, have you changed the brake wedges and are they fully fully greased inside the cup???
 
Steve Wastler said:
My guess would be the springs are repop or they are stretched, or a combo of both.
Click to expand...

I would agree and hope you changed the springs if your changing the brakes and the REPOPS will have to be clipped a bit to attach.. and GREASE it with Red Grease!! LOTS of it inside that cap
 
Inside the cup is greased. You can see a bit spilling out in the video.
I took out the adjusting wedges last year and cleaned them up. They looked fine.
Also, the adjusting shafts were nice and smooth.
Where else can I grease?
 
What is REPOP?
If it were the springs wouldn't it affect either/both sides. It's only one side that binds.
 
Are the lengths of the thrust pins (part you marked) the same length, they should be, but I don't think that would cause your issue, as they both seem to move out the same. I still think its lack of spring pressure, do you have another spring lying around you could try?
 
1930 Coupe

That's just it, they don't go back that readily. They don't return when the pedal is pressed. I've previously tried what you suggested, even tapping the backing plate with a rubber mallet without luck.
The annoying part is this:
1. Let's say, for example, I adjust 3 clicks and get a heavy drag.
2. I back out 1 click, still heavy drag.
3. Repeat step 2 a number of times and I still have a heavy drag.

Makes it difficult and brutally time consuming to adjust.
 
Correct spring pressure is critical for correct shoe alignment, as are all portions of a mechanical system. Weak springs at any point can and will allow the shoes to contact at an angle. New springs don't mean they are correct, they could be NORRS (new old ricks reproduction springs). You are already experiencing an issue in just adjusting them, why wouldn't you experience issues in function while driving. If a buddy doesn't have a known good set order some from Bert's A&L or Brattons.
 
There are reproduction springs on the market that are incorrect. The two short springs should have the hook ends at 90 degrees to each other. The incorrect ones have the hooks facing the same direction. Totally wrong, they will give you fits. Bratton's carry the correct ones. I could not tell by your video if you have the correct springs or if they are installed correctly.

The correct short springs will have a short hooked end and a long hooked end. The short hooked ends go over the pins by the roller track. At the opposite end one hook goes over the other goes under.

The arms attached to the shoes that go into the adjuster well need to move back and forth smoothly. You may have one that is bent or the inside of the tunnel has become gouged during removal. A given pair of arms should be the same length. Take them out and check for damage and equal length. Check the tunnels for damage. You can grind them to the same length and re-shape the knife end if they are wallowed over. You should also grease the arms and the well where the adjuster resides. I use white lithium grease on all mechanical brake parts inside the drums.

Tom Endy
 
Thanks for all of the input.
Just for ha-ha's, I repeated the video procedure and hit the brakes a few time. The shoe didn't retract.
 
Tom Endy said:
... I could not tell by your video if you have the correct springs or if they are installed correctly...

Tom Endy
Click to expand...


Here are a few shots of the spring installation.
 

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it looks as if the right lower spring has been over stretched. See the uneven gap in the coils? If , when off the anchors, it still has that gap, it is indeed over stretched and no longer serviceable. It will not retract the shoe with force equivalent to the opposite spring. It also indicates poor quality steel. If that is the case and the upper springs are from the same source, I would suspect the upper springs are poor quality as well.
 
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In the right hand photo the small spring on the left is shown with the hook attached to the pin on the roller track coming in from the bottom. It should come in from the top. Remove the spring and install the opposite end in the shoe from behind. This will orient the hook so it comes in over the top of the pin.


Check that the wedge moves up and down freely. When the large nut on the wedge assembly is torqued down the wedge should move up and down freely. Part of the assembly fits into a slot and if it is burred or full of crud the assembly will bind. I have found a number of cases where the nut was left loose to allow it to slide.

The push rods should be of sufficient length such that when you pull the slack out of the arm the brake rod attaches to the positioning of the arm is leaning forward by about 15 degrees. If not the cure is to replace the rods with ones of proper length, weld the ends up to increase the length, or install "pills" in the cup at the top of the wedge.

Tom Endy
 
Tom, I'm curious about the correction you suggest....ie, why would reversing that spring make a difference in the performance or adjusting of the brake assembly? Thanks much.
Dave
 
Pilotdave said:
Tom, I'm curious about the correction you suggest....ie, why would reversing that spring make a difference in the performance or adjusting of the brake assembly? Thanks much.
Dave
Click to expand...


Look closely at the right photo. The body of the small spring on the left is much closer to the roller than is the small right spring. The wedge is partially down. When it retracts the rollers will move up closer to the spring. It is conceivable that they could constrict in some circumstances. By flipping the left spring over it moves it away from the roller. I don't know if the orientation has any affect on the spring tension. I was taught years ago to orient the springs so both come over the top of the pins. The situation is the same for the rear wheels though the actuation is different.

Tom Endy
 
I just looked at Les Andrews book Vol. 1, page 1-39 The small springs are installed correctly according to Les. Right side hooks over top of pin, Left hooks under pin. Both long arms hooks are also shown with hook going over the top of the shoe. But Les has been wrong before.

If Les is Wrong, then I have all 4 wheels of my car with One small brake spring hooked up wrong, and my brakes work fine?? And anybody Else who has followed Les book to install the Small Springs has hooked them up Wrong!

I agree with Pat in Santa Cruse, look close at the Photo on the right. The Right Spring has 2 coils wound tight, then a space, then the remaining coils are all tight. now look at the adjusting wedge, it is pulled more to the left at the top, because the Left Spring has all coils wound tight. Also see the difference in space between the rollers and wedge, at the top of the Wedge. The left spring is pulling the shoe up tight, the right spring is not. The wedge being pulled to the Left also has the Operating Pin off at a Angle to the Left, instead of coming down Straight.
 
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