Model A V8-60 transplant

B

blwn33too

Junior Member
Going to put a V8-60 in a Model A coupe. Will the 4 banger rear end be strong enough to handle it (about 85hp)? Can I take the center section from a V8 closed driveshaft and use the end bells from the Model A rear end? Going to leave everything stock as it is other than engine. Any suggestions? Thank you.
 
I think you're going to be sadly disappointed with this swap (I also don't think it's got 85HP UNLESS greatly modified). I think this was discussed a long time ago here, you might try a search (top of page). The rear ends are of different widths, so I don't think that will work for you. What ****** were you going to use?? I also believe most V8-60's had a 4:11 rear end.
There may be additional info on the HAMB
Paul in CT
 
You cannot use the V8 center section and Model A bellhousings. Just use the Model A differential all stock, as it will work just fine.

While this will look cool, I have driven a couple of V8-60/Model A's, and it will not be very quick unless you hop up that motor a bit. Any good 4 banger will have more overall powere because they have so much torque. Us the 60Hp trans, and the Model A differential. It is really a pretty easy conversion.
 
The V8 60 is called that for a reason, it is only 60 HP. A model A engine is about half or less the weight and 40 HP and can be built with plenty more. The 60 had a 4.11 rear for the fact that they were so weak and heavy it took a low gear to get going.

Like Paul said, you will be disappointed in the swap. I have seen this more than once and the owner either sold the car or went back to the original four.
 
The 60 had a 4:44 rear --and it needed it, once you get used to winding it out to 5000-6000 rpm to make the car go it became fun, no problem doing 70 on the parkway, downshifting when you got below 2000 rpm. ---there is a reason it was called "the gutless wonder" ---build the engine with careful attention to balance, ---at least to factory production of 1 gram, I have had factory boxed sets of rods and pistons that were all the same weight(less than 1/4 gram )

The 'a' (andV8 to mid 32)axle housings won't fit on the later banjo, A is smaller in diameter, and the 35-48 banjo is wider(32-34 is the same width), 32-34 axles work out the the same width tip to tip as "A"

the 4cyl A is mostly driven under 2500 rpm, the 60 wants to be above 2500 rpm, if you build it with a 5,or 6 speed and 4:11 or more ratio, and drive it like a sports car it could be fun, but building 60 hp into the 'a' engine would cost less and would feel like it has more power than a 60 built to 85 hp ---and wouldn't need the drivetrain mods to make use of the gutless wonder ---I am not saying this because I don't like the 60, it just that it is different than the A and it's bigger brother.
 
Several years ago , a local guy had a 30 Tudor V8-60 with 3.78 rearend ... it was great to look at but Duane said it was gutless and not worth it ... He sold it shortly after buying it.
 
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There is no question, the little 60 hp V8 is a purty little engine. I installed a sixty out of a 37 pickup in a 30 model A town sedan, back in 63. It was a terrible mistake and I regret it to this day.

The model A backend will stand up to the hottest flathead V8 but a lower gear ratio will be a must for the 60. With 3.78 gears you will have a long winding first and secound gear that will sound bad a$$. when you shift in to third gear, the RPM drop will be sort of like idleing speed. A 4.11 gear may help some but you will really need a 4.44 ratio to get the engine up to the power band in high gear. Its not that easy of a swap. The front crossmember will have to be cut for clearance., the firewall will have to be cut and you will have to fabricate a throttle linkage setup. I think that a setup for the clutch and brake pedals is now available but is expensive. The radiator will need to be modified or replaced. The 60 clears the steering and will hook up to the model A torque tube-driveshaft if you use a v8 transmission or the transmission that goes with the 60. You will have to deal with the front wishbone, I split mine and connected each side to the frame rails. There is a kit now available for wishbone connection without splitting but is also a bit pricey. The 60 hp flathead is probably the worse swap that could be made as far as power and driveability is concerned.
 
Purdy, you are right on everything except the firewall does not have to be cut. I have a friend that put a 60 in his Model A coupe. It took a lot of modifications as you mention. He used the V-8 rear end and had to have the drive shaft/torque tube, axles/housings shortened. He spent a bunch of money rebuilding the engine and modifying all of the parts for installation. It took him about 3 months labor. The installation looked like a "factory" installation and was really pretty. Two Model A club tours here in the mountains and just two weeks later he pulled the 60 out of the coupe and reinstalled a stock 4 cylinder Model A motor and running gear. The 60 could not keep up with the worst running factory stock powered Model A in the hills. I will say that it would fly on a very long flat road where you had plenty of room to "wind it up". If you are planning on a driver this is not a good swap. If you want a pretty engine to park at a show then go for it.
 
I agree that a longer driveshaft- torque tube would shift the engine foward and the firewall wouldn't need to be cut. With an uncut and unlengthened model A driveshaft-torque tube, the fuel pump and oil fill tube ends up right under the firewall and inside the cab. Driveshaft- torque tube mods would be no problem for someone like George Miller but not so for the common man or a 17 year old, that I was in 1963.
 
The V9-60 is only 130 or so CID versus the 200 CID Model A four. A Model B four that has been worked over a little is a far far better engine, breathes better, more displacement. Of all the engines you could put in an A the V8-60 strikes me as one of the more pessimal choices. Especially with only three gears.
 
Purdy Swoft said:
I agree that a longer driveshaft- torque tube would shift the engine foward and the firewall wouldn't need to be cut. With an uncut and unlengthened model A driveshaft-torque tube, the fuel pump and oil fill tube ends up right under the firewall and inside the cab. Driveshaft- torque tube mods would be no problem for someone like George Miller but not so for the common man or a 17 year old, that I was in 1963.
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Thanks Purdy. Just saying what the other man did and he did not have to cut the firewall. Modifying the firewall might have actually made for an easier engine swap.
 
steve s said:
Me thinks the man came to the wrong forum with his question.
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In a certain way, but then where else?

I just think the V8-60 was a bad idea when it was made and still is except for a midget race car. Or maybe that motorcycle, if they had at least a three speed transmission.

Hindsight is 20-20 and it is easy to monday morning quarterback three-quarters of a century later....but I think the V8-60 and the 2N/8N/9N engines would both have been better off to have not existed in favor of the A/B four and developments thereof. The A/B four was the best Ford engine design until probably the Ford Windsor V8. The flathead V8 was crippled by its byzantine exhaust gas path and the Y block was too heavy.

Ford OWNED the hot rod/race car business until that other brand came out with its V8....and made everything interchange. Kids learned on cars they worked on and hopped up and that made them brand loyal for life. Ford would have stayed number one if they hadn't made 20 different engine families in 50 years.
 
Regarding your last sentence Hefty-Chevy whipped Fords arse in 1931 with it's 6 cylinder....

Ford didn't have much choice in the matter. Hence the v-8.
 
ronn said:
Regarding your last sentence Hefty-Chevy whipped Fords arse in 1931 with it's 6 cylinder....

Ford didn't have much choice in the matter. Hence the v-8.
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Henry, as you will recall did not believe in inline sixes, because the one he built before the T had the wrong crank configuration. The big V8 was undeniably successful for Ford although it is not an engine I ever had fondness for. We were discussing the little flathead 8 that was a failure in US manufactured cars. It was successful later in midget racers and Simca built it for years later, but that was because in those markets displacement was heavily taxed.
 
I think the V8-60 would have been a great engine to put in a late 40,s Anglia or Prefect (Defect ?).At least they were a very light car,but they had a very weak rear end,even for the tiny 4-cyl engine.The A or B engine with or without a 5.5 or 5.9 head will leave the V8 60 A in the dust even with a 2.94 OD ratio.
 
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