I WOULD LIKE TO IMPROVE THE BRAKES ON MY 1930 COUPE . I HAVE A COMPLETE SET( drums , shoes , backing plates , etc. ) OFF OF MY 1932 THEY ARE 12 '' DIAMETER . IS THIS A BOLT ON CHANGE OVER AND HAS ANYONE TRIED IT ? OR WOULD IT BE BETTER TO KEEP THE ORIGINAL AND USE FLATHEAD TED ROLLERS AND ARC GRIND THE SHOES .THANKS FOR ANY INPUT FROM YOUR EXPERINCE , STEVE
Model a upgrade to 12 " brakes
- Thread starter sfowler
- Start date
Kevin in NJ
Well-known member
The best upgrade to A brakes is just rebuild the originals properly.
The real limits to A breaking are the narrow wheels, steel drums, and improper set up. The 32 brakes would suffer from the same issues. It is not simple to get the brake shoes sized and centered properly.
Now if you were to go to wider wheel then you are talking a different story.
The reality is most people are not aware of how well the properly set up original system can work. People are always seeking ways to improve it. The problem with these early systems are they are just hard to make right without some special tools and taking the time and care to make sure you have all the parts right. Spend the money with one of the companies that specialize in making all 4 brakes right and don't look back.
The real limits to A breaking are the narrow wheels, steel drums, and improper set up. The 32 brakes would suffer from the same issues. It is not simple to get the brake shoes sized and centered properly.
Now if you were to go to wider wheel then you are talking a different story.
The reality is most people are not aware of how well the properly set up original system can work. People are always seeking ways to improve it. The problem with these early systems are they are just hard to make right without some special tools and taking the time and care to make sure you have all the parts right. Spend the money with one of the companies that specialize in making all 4 brakes right and don't look back.
mhsprecher
Well-known member
I am with Kevin. My 1930 Town Sedan with cast iron drums has great brakes. My 1929 roadster with steel drums barely stops, but I have never performed any maintenance to the system other than adjust them. I just bought cast iron drums and will go through the brake system on that car to get the system operating optimally.
springerpete
Well-known member
I agree with Kevin. The original Model A brakes are very good when correctly adjusted. Fortunately, there is a shop nearby that has a man who is very good and he has my brakes right up to snuff. I worked with him and it was a good lesson. Be sure all the parts are right, get cast iron drums and take your time.
Synchro909
Well-known member
Agree with the above. The limitation to stopping a Model A is not the brakes, it is the narrow tyres. The original brakes properly setup will lock the wheels. Once the wheels lose traction, it doesn't matter what brakes you have. As has been said, if you are using wider tyres, that's a whole different thing.
KGBnut
Well-known member
As much as I agree with everything that everyone here has said, I will add that the one advantage to switching to a larger diameter drum is better heat dissipation. It MIGHT be worth it if you frequently find yourself going down long steep hills.
I have a few routes that I avoid because even pumping the brakes really carefully, and allowing plenty of time to cool, I still get significant brake fade.
For me, other than those situations, I find that the Model A brakes (even with original size tires) are sufficient, but I do keep them well maintained, lubed, and adjusted.
Ken
I have a few routes that I avoid because even pumping the brakes really carefully, and allowing plenty of time to cool, I still get significant brake fade.
For me, other than those situations, I find that the Model A brakes (even with original size tires) are sufficient, but I do keep them well maintained, lubed, and adjusted.
Ken
Kevin in NJ
Well-known member
I should add some other thoughts.
If you are going 12" get all the late 36 parts where they were lever mechanical brakes with full floating shoes. Keep in mind you must re-engineer the lever system that operates the brakes as Ford did some changes to all the lengths to get proper operation of the shoes.
For more info you can see the evolution of the brakes systems by reading some of the earlier V8 brake articles in the V8 Service Bulletins. Late 36 was the final evolution before going to cable brakes then juice.
If you are going 12" get all the late 36 parts where they were lever mechanical brakes with full floating shoes. Keep in mind you must re-engineer the lever system that operates the brakes as Ford did some changes to all the lengths to get proper operation of the shoes.
For more info you can see the evolution of the brakes systems by reading some of the earlier V8 brake articles in the V8 Service Bulletins. Late 36 was the final evolution before going to cable brakes then juice.
Fred A
Well-known member
Kevin says "properly", Pete says "make sure all the parts are right", 909 is sure it's the tires. I have no doubt that the A brakes and tires were adequate, probably good for their era of manufacture but we find ourselves in driving conditions with demands beyond those conditions. The Model B got a better front brake that was bigger and better with Iron drums that carried bigger Fords through 1934. Drums seem quite cheap around here. What mechanical brake bolt on replacement could be better? I always have to say "around here" because there is always a chorus of guys that don't get around much claiming they can't find any such. For the thrifty guys, no cheaper iron drum real Ford improvement bolt-on to be had. In scientific study 87% of Model A experts don't even notice the visual difference when the later brakes are installed. With the price of brake work going up and the price of Model B brakes steady(around here) since 1980, better get yours before the stinking Rat Rodders find out and drive up the price. Imroperly adjusted: Fred A
BRENT in 10-uh-C
Well-known member
FRANK PKNY
Well-known member
I put a set of FlatheadTeds brake equalizers on my coupe, they work great, stops like power brakes. I did the same on my 35 roadster, both have the mechanical brakes, I would recommend
them highly.
them highly.
I really appreciate every ones input on my '' a '' brakes .. Kevins advice to spend the money and don't look back is very well said . Every time i pinch pennys i wish i hadn't later on . I am running 32 wheels and 5.50 x 18 tires so i do have a little better ground contact. I'm going to at least look at how well the 32 units might fit up to the a spindles. Thank again to all . Steve
CWPASADENA
Well-known member
The '32 front brakes are a direct bolt on. Along with the backing plate assemblies and drums, you have to be sure you also have the longer operating pins. Stock Model A are 7 1/4 in, , '32 are 7 3/4 in. The extra 1/2 in. is necessary for the 1 in larger drums.
All the backing plate parts are the same as Model A except for the shoes and springs The rebuilding and set up procedure is the same as Model A.
You will wind up with larger brakes with cast iron drums on the front which is a good thing.
You will also wind up with more brake bias toward the front with '32 brakes on the front and Model A brakes on the rear which is also a good thing.
Model A's were designed with 40% front and 60% rear bias which is backwards than what it should be. Later, Ford biased the brakes more toward the front.
The '32 rear brakes are NOT a direct bolt on and modifications are required to make them work. I do not feel the modifications are worth the effort.
I have one Model A with original brakes with cast iron drums that really stops well.
I have another of my cars that has '32 brakes all around that also stops very well.
I had the '32 brakes that had good drums so I was not out a lot of money.
I like the idea of the larger cast iron drums.
I just installed '32 brakes on the front of a friends car with excellent results. It has Model A Brakes on the rear.
If you have '32 front brakes with good drums, I would rebuild them and use them. I think you would be very pleased with the results.
One thing I did on my Model A with stock brakes was to lengthen the front brake levers which will add more braking to the front. This made a big difference. This helps to bias the brakes more toward the front.
Again, this is just my experience and what I have tried and have had success with. Others, I am sure, will have other ideas which is fine with me. I am not trying to tell anyone they are wrong, I am just relating my experience.
Chris W.
All the backing plate parts are the same as Model A except for the shoes and springs The rebuilding and set up procedure is the same as Model A.
You will wind up with larger brakes with cast iron drums on the front which is a good thing.
You will also wind up with more brake bias toward the front with '32 brakes on the front and Model A brakes on the rear which is also a good thing.
Model A's were designed with 40% front and 60% rear bias which is backwards than what it should be. Later, Ford biased the brakes more toward the front.
The '32 rear brakes are NOT a direct bolt on and modifications are required to make them work. I do not feel the modifications are worth the effort.
I have one Model A with original brakes with cast iron drums that really stops well.
I have another of my cars that has '32 brakes all around that also stops very well.
I had the '32 brakes that had good drums so I was not out a lot of money.
I like the idea of the larger cast iron drums.
I just installed '32 brakes on the front of a friends car with excellent results. It has Model A Brakes on the rear.
If you have '32 front brakes with good drums, I would rebuild them and use them. I think you would be very pleased with the results.
One thing I did on my Model A with stock brakes was to lengthen the front brake levers which will add more braking to the front. This made a big difference. This helps to bias the brakes more toward the front.
Again, this is just my experience and what I have tried and have had success with. Others, I am sure, will have other ideas which is fine with me. I am not trying to tell anyone they are wrong, I am just relating my experience.
Chris W.
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Ian in Mississauga
Senior Member
I have the exact same set up as CWPASEDINA and I agree with him completely. My only problem was the 12 inch backing plates made it a little harder to get at the tie rod ends.
CWPASADENA
Well-known member
Personally, I am not a big fan of Ted's Floaters. It seems to me that they are very fussy about adjustment.
I do use the Front Brake Floaters that have been available for a very many years, I think even before the War. I feel they give most of the advantages of Ted's and are very simple to install and adjust.
I arc all shoes. I bought a shoe arcing machine about 30 years ago and also arc shoes for most of the members of our club.
In order to have good brakes, the shoes MUST fit the drums.
Again, this is JUST MY OPINION>
Chris W.
I do use the Front Brake Floaters that have been available for a very many years, I think even before the War. I feel they give most of the advantages of Ted's and are very simple to install and adjust.
I arc all shoes. I bought a shoe arcing machine about 30 years ago and also arc shoes for most of the members of our club.
In order to have good brakes, the shoes MUST fit the drums.
Again, this is JUST MY OPINION>
Chris W.
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daveymc29
Well-known member
I have the 32's on the front of my coupe. They work very well and I also o have the open spoke hub and drum unit that is one piece. They are in need of turning but out of specs already, so what do I do from here? I haven't found any of the five spoke hub/drums that are turnable and haven't seen any new for sale. Any suggestions? Model A hubs with a 12 inch drum? I have 600 X 16's on the ground and stop fine now, but the brakes look due for replacement on all corners.
CWPASADENA
Well-known member
This is a problem with '32 brakes. You have to have good drums because to my knowledge, there are no replacements being made.
Luckily, I have had good drums for my projects.
You may put a wanted ad on the early V-8 forum of The Barn. There are a lot of guys converting to hydraulics. Also, H.A.M.B. may also be a place to look.
The Early V-8 Garage in West Covina, Ca. may have some good used drums. They have a lot of early V-8 parts. (626) 338-2282, ask for Richard.
Chris W.