Loose Head Bolt

A

AlfinVA

Member
Guys, I just checked the torque on my head bolts(cold) before a tour next week. All were fine at 55 lb-ft except the bolt between cylinders 1 and 2.The stud is either broken or is stripped and spins in the block. Three questions: 1) Are there any repairs you can suggest assuming the stud is not broken that can tighten the stud without removing the head?
2) If I the stud is broken and it's flush with the block whats the best way to remove the broken piece?
3) I'll need a new head gasket- Is there a Best one to get?

Thanks, Alf in VA
 
I think first thing I'd try is drain the coolant and try removing that nut/stud. Maybe you'll luck out and the nut is stripped. It gets a lot uglier if the stud is broken, or the threads are stripped in the block.
 
If the stud is broken, pull the broken part up out of the head. Next get a drill bit that fits snugly in the hole and drill into the broken piece in the block, just enough to mark the center of the stud. Then when you pull the head you will have the exact center of the stud marked (in case you decide to use an "Easy-Out").
 
AlfinVA said:
Guys, I just checked the torque on my head bolts(cold) before a tour next week. All were fine at 55 lb-ft except the bolt between cylinders 1 and 2.The stud is either broken or is stripped and spins in the block. Three questions: 1) Are there any repairs you can suggest assuming the stud is not broken that can tighten the stud without removing the head?
2) If I the stud is broken and it's flush with the block whats the best way to remove the broken piece?
3) I'll need a new head gasket- Is there a Best one to get?

Thanks, Alf in VA
Click to expand...

Alf,
1. If the stud is clearly broken you can try and drill to remove. You can use the head as a guide at least to get startedas 40 Deluxe noted above. I have had good success drilling them out and if needed you can use a heli-coil if the threads are compromised.

2. guys have done the weld a washer and nut to the top of the stud and I have occaionally used that and had limited success.... just be careful to protect the engine cylinders and surrounding valves if you do that.

3. a copper head gasket coated both sides in copper coat would be fine and also the "BEST" brand head gaskets available from Berts and I believe Snyders now has them as well are excellent.

Larry Shepard
 
BILL WILLIAMSON said:
If you have to re-thread the block hole, the suppliers have a stud, with a fatter bottom end.
Bill W.
Click to expand...

I have 4 helicoils in one of my engines where the head studs had broken and someone wasn't good enough to remove them without damaging the block. The guy who put them in for me has been doing it for years and says it sis the best way out of the problem. I recommend them under whatever name (Helicoil, Recoil etc)
 
BILL WILLIAMSON said:
If you have to re-thread the block hole, the suppliers have a stud, with a fatter bottom end.
Bill W.
Click to expand...

That would be a good choice if the block threads are stripped. Unless the nut is stripped, it certain the head will be coming off to fix this correctly.

Two thin nuts locked to each other can be used to back out the stud, unless it's rusted in place. If it's rusted in place and needs to be removed, then heat the stud near the block and let it cool. Do this 2 or 3 times to try to break the rust bond.

I've had excellent success with the welded washer and nut method, but sometimes I have had to weld it twice.
 
BILL WILLIAMSON said:
"Most" E-Z outs lead to GRIEF ! Go easy & don't overstress them! Been there, done that!
Bill W.
Click to expand...

I am not sure who invented the "E-Z Out, but I am sure it was a machine salesman.

Just look at what you use and do. The instructions tell you to drill out the bolt as far as you can without hitting the threads of the stuck bolt. Then you take a seriously tapered left hand screw and jam it into the hole, and the more you turn it, the harder you force it into the hole spreading that hole to tighten it up even more in the hole!

Seems quite counter-productive to me.

I have used left hand drills for what seems like a lifetime with great success. I have also used an item sold by Snap-On that had a straight shank that didn't spread the bolt.

The rattling wooden nickle.
 
The only good easy outs I've ever seen or used is the ones we had in the Army. They had a straight shank with sharp barbs running the length, so as you tapped them down into the hole you drilled in the broken stud, they grabbed on without expanding the broken part. I've never seen them since I got out of the Army, but wouldn't mind finding a good set of them.
 
Left hand drill bit, run it at a slow speed. Heat the broken stud several times first to loosen it as much as possible.
 
Hi Alfin,

Just me, after 50 years of fighting Model A studs:

1. Per your first crucial remark, "Next week" ..... no time to just talk about it.

2. Per your "The stud is either broken or is stripped and "spins" in the block."; and,

Per your question, "1) Are there any repairs you can suggest assuming the stud is not broken that can tighten the stud without removing the head? No .... a stud spinning in a block is not something to "play" with ..... immediately remove head to investigate further the "exact" cause and to "entirely" remove this questionable spinning stud.

3. Per your question, "2) If I the stud is broken and it's flush with the block whats the "best" way to remove the broken piece?" No time to loose ..... The "best" way? Go to Mr. Vince Foster's Ford Garage where he illustrates an old vintage proven "welding" method used for years:

http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/studremoval.htm

If needed call a friend with a welder or go to Harbor Freight to buy a cheap MIG rig for under $100.00 and weld washer & stud per directions .... might take welding more than once of 1st or 2nd weld breaks.

4. I'll need a new head gasket- Is there a "Best" one to get?

Get Bratton's silicone gasket. Disregard installation instructions of "not" providing gasket sealer and coat both sides with non-hardening Permatex No. 2. Mine is on for 10 years with no leaks and no re-torquing.

Not trying to sound abrupt, but with only a "few days" left to get ready, and your wanting to "win" this battle, please get out of the "Fox Hole Defense Mode" and immediately assume a vicious, "Full Attack Mode."

Again, just me.
 
I had that problem once, was fortunate that the block was not totally stripped out. With the head still in place I cleaned the hole using lacquer thinner and blowing out with an air nozzle , 2 doses. I then chose a stud with longer threads, put JB Weld on it and screwed it into the block. I then put a nut on the stud finger tight, this held the stud in a vertical position. Let it dry (set) overnight, then torqued to 55 lbs. This repair lasted a couple of years, until the next time I pulled the engine and did a proper repair with a heli-coil. It worked for me, good luck!
 
Hi Alvin,

Just simple opinions and simple choices.

Per your possible concerns, "before a tour"; different "temporary" fixes could appear important ......... depending on if "peace of mind" on a tour away from home would be one's minor or major concern?

Or could the outcome of this Model A tour be somewhat questionable like that described in the famous book entitled:

"Running to the Toilet" by carefree author,"Willie Makit"?
 
Worth mentioning, not just for Alvin, but for anyone slightly mechanically inexperienced, who may have head stud removal problems, and want to avoid a "few" ways to insure "screwing-up" a Model A engine block when removing damaged head stud(s):

1. Drill out engine head stud(s) at an angle, or slightly off of center and ruin existing cast iron stud bolt threads in engine block.

2. Drill out engine stud(s) at an angle, or slightly off of center such that the head bolt hole is not aligned where it is difficult to remove or install the head.

3. Drill out stud(s) too deeply and penetrate the water jacket down below where the head stud's worn threads in the block leak coolant to the exterior, or leak coolant into the adjacent combustion chamber.

4. Allow drilled cast iron and steel stud bolt metal particles to fall in adjacent piston(s) between piston rings and cylinder(s) to insure more rapid engine wear.


5. Drill a head stud, insert a tapered E-Z Out which expands and tightens the stud threads in the cast iron block. Then "when" the stubborn stud does not un-screw, exert enough torque to break the very fragile E-Z Out inside the head stud(s) where no ordinary drill bit can drill into this hardened carbon-steel E-Z Out.

6. Forum messages, like carefully written instruction manuals, are great for instructing "How" to do it ....... often omitted by many instructors and instruction manuals are how "Not" to do it ...... hope this can help in providing a successful remedy.
 
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