Lets talk front spring

bogdonj

bogdonj

Well-known member
Starting to restore the front end and took the spring off and noticed a few things that's I haven't seen before. I have a total of 11 leafs on it and the top 2 are the same (someone added one for some reason?) also the spring clamps were hammered on and look to be riveted. The biggest thing I haven't seen before is that 2 of the leafs have a groove in the middle that go right down?? Any help or info would be awesome


Justin
 

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Aftermarket?

A grease channel? No zerks?

It takes a dedicated hand (or machine) to put a groove in a spring. We're talking high carbon steel here.

Were this mine, I would replace it immediately with today's aftermarket spring - and then set this aside for posterity. It is MOST unusual. One of the museums MUST have a section on Model A modifications and they would certainly be interested in this.

I remember as a kid seeing the 1927 Sears Roebuck Catalog reprint. I was AMAZED at the number of "aftermarket" things that could be bought for the Model T through Sears. The Model A is a holdover of this era - and likely the last "modern" car to really have this option. Automobiles after the Model A were bought and used as we use our cars today. Most modern car owners have no inclination to modify their cars - and would be frowned upon by the regulators if they should try. (ANY modification to automobiles outside of the manufacturer's design is reason to disqualify a car from roadworthiness in Cow Hampshire. Some get by - if you know the mechanic personally.)
 
it sounds as if some one fashioned their own spring from "spare" parts. ( or junk). The riveted clamps are 31. The grooved leaf is not Model A, neither are 11 leaves. Its not uncommon to find the top leaf without the chamfered edges. Without that feature, the spring can crack the cross member. Most of these 80 year old springs suffer metal fatigue. You can re arc them, but unless you re temper them they just sag again very soon. I would get a new spring and be certain the top leaf is properly beveled. Many still are not and you must DIY.
 
I have an august 1931 wide bed. The clamps are rivited to one of the leaves. I allways though it was an after market spring. Nice to learn it is the correct spring.
 
Would I be doing any harm cleaning it and putting it back together and using it? Taking out one of the top small leafs
 
bogdonj said:
Would I be doing any harm cleaning it and putting it back together and using it? Taking out one of the top small leafs
Click to expand...

as long as the arc is good enough to prevent the shackles from hitting the bumper, it will work, although in all likelihood not as well as a new one. A good spring holds the bottom of the shackle at least 1/4 inch from the axle. At the least you should restore the leaves and paint them with Slip Coat. If you ask around the club or other A owners, you might find a spring leaf to replace the one from the V8. Blast or wire wheel off all the rust. Grind out any wear marks that can lock the leaves. Bevel the undersides of the ends to prevent the upper edge from digging into the lower leaf. Install new bushings if needed. And bevel the edges of the top leaf so it nests in the cross member. Apply graphite paint to the undersides of the leaves ( not the bottom leaf). Use a center bolt with the correct square head, not the cheapo one with a round head.
 
I am new to this site .I own two As the second owner of a 28 AR roadster bought in 1955 and third owner of a 1930 165C Fordor I bought in 1970 .These cars have been kept inside since before I got them and they have no rust . I had to replace the wood in the Fordor so I am doing a body off .I discovered that it has a 12 leaf front spring ?? Would this be an option ? My AR has a honey comb rad .The story I got from Ford was that it was getting to the end of the shift and they ran out of rads so they sent a fellow to MacLouds to pick up enough to finish the shift .Maybe that is why we have a different springs.
 
According to the service bulletins, the 12 leaf front spring was described as an option for owners driving on particularly rough roads. Likewise they could be retrofitted to cars (later standard for trucks) for additional load carrying ability.

As to the honeycomb - more than likely an aftermarket replacement. My 29CC pickup came with a honeycomb - which worked - sort of. It was later replaced with a boiled out and (more importantly) tight radiator in the Ford/McCord Style of later replacements.

I have a "funnel top" waiting for a re-core which is probably the radiator of originality both for my 29 pickup AND certainly the earlier AR vehicles.

IMHO, the 28-29 pattern of radiator as it orginally came from Ford was at best "challenged" due to too small a cooling area. Doubtless the Ford thinking on this came from the Model T which was likewise challenged - and operated intentionally at or near the boiling point. A LOT of 28-29 radiators were likewise changed out early for more effective cooling.

Above ditto for the increase in radiator area for the 30-31 models.

I don't think Ford would have had the option to go across the street to MacLouds - at least I have never heard of this before.

Ford didn't really practice a JIT manufacturing sequence. Even the boxes that subcontractors provided parts in was specified by Ford - a la WalMart business model. Like Wally, Ford could afford to swing his marketplace positioning around to get EXACTLY what he wanted from his suppliers - and on time or syonara.

But the honeycomb sounds like a fun story. I may lay claim to that one myself.

I still have it on my shelf.

Joe K
 
I just bought and installed (or tried too) a new front spring, 10 leaf...having trouble drawing down the spring shackle u bolts to where I can install cotter pins in castallation nuts..can't get there...and the old spring clips will not allow me to get bolt in..spring to thick?? I'm worried about cracking cross member because top spring is not chamfered??
 
There are some "non-conforming" springs out there produced by the aftermarket suppliers. Most of these have spring leaves that are identical thickness from top to bottom of the stack (see above where someone has indicated the Ford blueprint thickness for the various leaves of the spring.) As you may have found, frequently the top most leaf is not properly champhered on either ends or sides to sit in the proper position in the frame.

Likely you've found one of those springs. You may be able to disassemble the spring and check each leaf?

Um. Be mindful that a front spring - although not near the hazard of the rear spring in disassembly - can still spring apart in a surprise ending to your consciousness. Be sure to remove that center bolt and disassemble with the spring pac fully restrained - as in clamped in a vise or using stout c-clamps.

Some here have described champhering the top-most leaf to achieve proper fit. Others have added the necessary champher at each leaf that these springs seem to lack (the lack of champher causing early wear of the leaf tops by the bottom edge of the leaf immediately above it.)

Or maybe return it to your supplier as unsatisfactory - and go buy a better repop spring from a trusted and proven supplier? Others can name the current supplier du-jour (whose name escapes me currently.)

Joe K
 
Sounds as though your new spring is wider than the old one. I checked an original front main leaf and it measures 1.780, or 1/32" over 1 3/4". When you mention shackle U bolts I'm assuming you are referring to the shackles and when you put the shackle bars on you cannot draw the nuts down enough. Is your main leaf (at the spring eye) wider than the spring perch by very much? Also, 1930 coupe gave a thickness measurement for the #5 leaf of .175 or slightly less than 3/16". If yours is thicker that could affect the clamp/bolt fitment, but being over the 1 3/4 dim. could too. If spring is too wide you must spread the clamp to go over the spring, but then the bolt may not fit.
As for the missing chamfer just grind a 1/4" x 45* chamfer on the edges of the top leaf.

I just saw Joe K's latest post and while I gave you some things to look for Joe probably has the best solution-if it doesn't fit send it back.
 
if you did not chamfer the top leaf, the spring will not fit the cross member. You will not get the castellated nuts up to the cotter hole, and the cross member will eventually crack. You must do this, or swap out the top for the original top leaf. The new repro spring clamps never seem to fit and they look wrong. I have been able to get originals to fit some springs from the better suppliers, but often the leaves are too thick and the bolt holes have to be filed or drilled larger to get the pin bolt bin. Do not assume any spring from a vendor is ready to install. The leaves also need to have the sharp edges of the ends beveled, and a lubricant installed between the leaves. Lots of guys like the dry graphite paint lubricant, some use grease. A search for "slip plate", the John Deere graphite lube, should find several alternatives. I like the brush on type. With springs, you get what you pay for generally.

try:
http://www.slipplate.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1
 
today I took anti spueek out and chamfered top leaf, still cannot get castalation nuts to reach a point where I can put cotter pins in...vender suggested grinding castalation nuts down till cotter pins fit...kinda mickey mouse to me...Burt's did not have answers and did not suggest a solution to their spring not fitting...may not use them in future...
 
robert shreveport said:
So any springs bought new as in a complete set should be taken apart. Either front or rear. Such as say Snyders and reworked??
Click to expand...

I have yet to see a new repro spring with the top chamfered or the leaves lubricated. I have not seen springs from a-springs.com, as I have not had much luck connecting with them.
 
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