Kingpin question

bbrocksr said:
I guess you've never seen a precision reamer!
A spiral flute precision reamer is almost impossible to chatter and will leave an excellent finish. This is how they were done at the factory and they worked pretty good.
Reaming gets a bad wrap from people using straight blade adjustable reamers which are next to impossible to get a good job.
A kingpin reamer is a spiral flute precision reamer that is long enough to engage the second bushing while reaming the first bushing allowing perfect alignment between the finished bushings.
Bill
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I have seen and used precision reamers. Part of my 50plus years was spent working experimental/flight test for several of the aircraft manufacturers. Stuff like that is usually too expensive or too hard to get for home or small shop use. I stand by my statement about the use of pin hones over reamers.
 
trainguy said:
Using the sandpaper method will work but it does not align the two bushings ,a poor fitting,short lived repair will result,My advice do it right,do it once! Phil
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The dowel and emery are long enough to go through both bushings.
Wouldn't that align them?
I have made several useful "Ford tools" on my woodworking equip.
 
BrianCT said:
The dowel and emery are long enough to go through both bushings.
Wouldn't that align them?
I have made several useful "Ford tools" on my woodworking equip.
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I think the problem would be lack of control. It would be difficult to remove the same amount of material from both bushings and keep them concentric, etc. But it might work good enough. Trial and error!
 
deucemac said:
I have done both ways of pin to bushing fitting over 50 years. I like the term "quality" reamer. If anyone has developed a style or reaming that will guarantee a chatter free cut from start to finish, I would love to see it. I gave up on bushing reamers years ago and have all king pin bushings I install, HONED to finish size on a Sunnen pin hone. The fit and finish is much better than reaming and the fit remains tight long after a reamed Bushing gives up the ghost. Leave all the Rube Goldberg remedies to the funny papers and spend the relatively small amount it costs to hone the bushings. Of course all of this is dependent upon a good machinist and proper lube intervals (and quality grease). That is my two cents worth, unlike the hobbiests here(and I mean no disrespect because there are some fine home mechanics out there) I had to work in a timely mannor,guarantee my work,and instill confidence in my customer so he would return again for more work. If you are going to do machining of any type, find the best quality route to follow. The extra cost will win out every time. With that said, I see Mickey's little hands tell me it is time to return to the home!
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Amen. I've done them both ways and having them honed at a machine shop is the best and most accurate. It gives you a nice smooth fit.
 
When I started this thread I mentioned that I did not have access to a machine shop that had a credible reputation--I have no doubt in my mind that an experienced machinist using a Sunnen hone would be the very best
fitment available--I looked at a video of a machinist doing a kingpin job on a Sunnen hone and he reversed the spindle on the hone every 3 or 4 passes--He mentioned that this is needed in reality they had learned--I wonder if all machinists have learned this? Or was the hone showing it's age?--It made me realize there are many factors influencing the results--
I do not know what kind of result I will get from the tool I made but I do know that I am going to learn something--I also know I will enjoy doing it--
That is what this hobby is all about to me--If I do not get satisfactory results I will try something different--Learning and smiling as I go--Don
 
Let us know how it works out. As a general rule if I can't do it myself, it doesn't get done! So I understand where your comming from. But I am also willing to spend what every it takes to get the tools and equipment I need.
 
McMaster-Carr, has any style and size reamer you can want. I don't think the sandpaper on a stick is the way to go. Control looks like an easy way of creating out of round bushings. I'm sure someone will argue how great their job came out, but my motto has always been "do it right the first time". My time is way too valuable to do what is a simple job over.
 
The sandpaper on a stick might tend to make the bushes reverse barrel shaped, if you can imagine what I'm trying to say. I managed for years with a second hand 13/16ths reamer bought for not much money off ebay.

Mart.
 
I went out to my shop to test Mart's reverse barrel effect--
I made a test bushing from a piece of bronze, bored it 13/16ths, and put my "tool" in the lathe--
I slid the bushing forth and back the full 12 inches for about 5 minutes rotating as bit as I proceeded--
The bushing is about 1-1/4 inches long--
The center 3/4 inch measures a gain of about .003
About 1/4 inch from the end the taper begins with about another .004
This problem might get more pronounced the more taken from the center--

MART IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!!!

Back to the drawing board--It has been interesting to say the least! Don
 
I had a set of adjustable reamers and a full size reamer.
I got most the stock out of the way and run the full size hand reamer to size.
I like epay because when you need something used, its most of time on there.
Its to your door no travel expense. Last one I did was on a F1 pu.
 
bbrocksr said:
I guess you've never seen a precision reamer!
A spiral flute precision reamer is almost impossible to chatter and will leave an excellent finish. This is how they were done at the factory and they worked pretty good.
Reaming gets a bad wrap from people using straight blade adjustable reamers which are next to impossible to get a good job.
A kingpin reamer is a spiral flute precision reamer that is long enough to engage the second bushing while reaming the first bushing allowing perfect alignment between the finished bushings.
Bill
Click to expand...


My 14" long dowel engaged both bushings simultaneously and gave excellent alignment. It was easy to tell when the pin was about to fit. On both spindles the cleaned and oiled pins slid slowly under their own weight, and upon meeting the lower bushing, passed through without hesitation and continued their slow descent 'til the nailhead hit home. My reamer left a smooth chatter-free finish in the bores. Even if there was a machine shop on Orcas Island it would be in town which is a 24 mile round trip from where I live. Time will tell if my method is short lived, but at my age I'm guessing it's most likely good enough for my purposes.
 
34fordy said:
I went out to my shop to test Mart's reverse barrel effect--
I made a test bushing from a piece of bronze, bored it 13/16ths, and put my "tool" in the lathe--
I slid the bushing forth and back the full 12 inches for about 5 minutes rotating as bit as I proceeded--
The bushing is about 1-1/4 inches long--
The center 3/4 inch measures a gain of about .003
About 1/4 inch from the end the taper begins with about another .004
This problem might get more pronounced the more taken from the center--

MART IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!!!

Back to the drawing board--It has been interesting to say the least! Don
Click to expand...

With a bushing only 1 1/4" long it's easy to rock it across the axis of the tool. The bushings need to be installed in their spindle for this method to work properly. Case in point, years ago I tried to bore the big end of a 59ab rod bearing with a brake cylinder hone. Huge reverse barrel effect, utter failure. Rube would have liked my kingpin dowel if he were still alive....
 
I have been using Chadwick and Trefethen adjustable reamers for king pins for years. You must use a pilot so it will ream both bushings in line. You cannot remove all the material in one pass, if they are adjusted a little at a time and make several passes, they will do a very good job.
Mark
 
Has there been any cars or trucks where the kingpin rides in tapered roller bearings in races like the 'other' moving parts attached to the spindle? Heck, wheel bearings are cheap and easily replaced by a novice beside the road with almost no tools. Seems a real bearing in there would be better than any of the exacting repair work described above. Never mind the herculean task of removing the 70 year old stuck pins in the first place. But removal is another subject altogether......
 
bbrocksr said:
.8125 will be fine, that's one and a half thousandths clearance.
Are your reamers Kingpin reamers? (spiral flute and long)
Bill
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The first set of king pins I ever did, I gave .001 clearance.
The customer was PISSED, they were way too loose...

So, I have fit them as tight as I could, just enough clearance so that you could get the pins in by hand with a firm push...

A Sunnen hone with the full length mandrell is the BEST tool to use. I don't think that anyone will present an argument that will stand... I have fit them by feel, and don't bother to set up the gauge.

I do like to do any thing I can at home, and can understand making a compromise for that.

Karl
 
I have not given up on my tool (no. 14) I feel the main reason for the reverse barrell effect was that the honing paper pressure at the outside edges was greater as it was trying to open outward--I have made a yoke that will hold the spindle and an extra bushing on each end of the spindle and a longer bushing to fit in the middle where the axle would be--This will keep the grit paper compressed on both sides of the new spindle bushings and prevent this reverse barrell effect--(I hope)--There will be no hand pressure bearing on the spindle to make it rock as it will be move by pressure from the yoke and extra bushings on each side--I am going on vacation next week but can't wait to get back and get started--I wonder what other surprise the old 34 will show me as I start dismantling the front end--Don
 
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