Frustrated timing issue-again

Fred K-OR

Fred K-OR

Well-known member
I am at it again. My huckster was not running very good. So checked the point gap, tried to time it using various methods, Tom's, Marco's and my handy dandy Nurex tool. After doing this, the problem I have is that when I advance the spark lever, nothing changes. The engine runs the same. Don't get the old spark up run, it just runs the same as when the spark lever is down. What am I doing wrong??? I would guess I still have not set the timing correct but I sure tried various methods.

Any suggestions? Or is it just one "get out and do it correctly".

Would appreciate any help.
 
The best way I found is to take the spark plug out of cylinder #1 and lay it on top of the cylinder. (take the other spark plug out as well, so it is easer to crank).
Then crank the car with the hand crank and make sure that the spark plug on cylinder #1 fire just has the pin hit the hole in the flywheel.
Make sure you don't have gas in the cylinder (let it sit open for awhile and let the gas evaporate) because the flame that shot out of the cylinder almost burned my eyebrows.
 
You might check to see if the front timing cover is for a Model A engine, not a Model B. The B will have an elongated timing pin boss. The symptoms are the same a club member had and we found he had a B front timing cover. If this is the case do as the post above says and pull the number one spark plug and visually put the piston at TDC to set the timing. At the next swap meet look for an A timing cover and change it out.

Tom Endy
 
Just asking, but are you setting the timing with the lever in the " up" position? Maybe I am miss- reading your post
 
Fred,

You have the timing too far advanced.

Once you re time it and get it right, you should never have to re time it again. I have not re timed my car in 10 years.

I would bet that you timed it with the spark lever down.....
 
Every time I tried to time the thing, I did make sure that the spark lever was up as high as it goes. But I do think you are correct in that somehow the timing is to far advanced.

This rig did work well for over the last 2000 miles or so since I had the engine rebuilt. So I don't think it has a problem with the front timing gear cover. It just seemed to start acting up toward the end of last summer and when I took it out this spring.

I think I may have to just go back and try and time it again and see if that makes a difference.

The other thing I did at the same time as I retimed it was I took off the B carb it had on it and put on an A carb. I took off the B carb because I found the spark plugs were very black and dirty. I assumed the B carb may be giving it to much gas. So I may go back to the B carb and see if that change may have had an effect on the way it is running now.

If the above things do not work, I may go and install one of my extra distributors and see if that may help. I don't know much about distributors but maybe using another one may solve my problems. Could be something in the distributor causing the problem.

Thanks again for the ideas..
 
Are you getting the proper range from the spark advance rod? If the steering column is not centered properly then you may not get the full range of travel at the distributor when you try to advance the spark. Check at the distributor to make sure you're getting the full range of travel when you advance or retard the spark.
 
zzlegend said:
Fred check out this past thread. Hope Tom W. does not mind if I stole his picture. This explains it very well. It does not matter where your spark lever is as long as you set the rotor as Tom posted in post 53. Point the rotor to the trailing edge of number one. Be sure to take the free play out CCW. Then make sure the lever is up and give it a go.

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=160842&highlight=setting+rotor+timing&page=3
Click to expand...

I will have to double check. I think I tried to set the rotor like Tom says here but I may have messed up.
 
heneste said:
Are you getting the proper range from the spark advance rod? If the steering column is not centered properly then you may not get the full range of travel at the distributor when you try to advance the spark. Check at the distributor to make sure you're getting the full range of travel when you advance or retard the spark.
Click to expand...

I think I am getting the proper range. I did check this.

But I also noticed that the black distributor body looked like it was a new after market type body. May be something wrong with it. I think when the rig was running so good in the past I think I had the old body on it that had been there for years. I may have to go and find the old body and try it.

Thanks again.
 
I have never been 100% on finding tdc with fords pin. So I ground a 5/16 bolt in the shape of a dull pencil. Remove all plugs turn over engine thumb over # 1 hole to find compression hold bolt with thumb and pull up slowly with hand crank and the bolt dropped in the dent and stopped the turning. Now I am 100% sure I am at tdc :-) Then use others to set rotor trailing edge at #1 in cap.
 
Somewhere???, I read of a timing indicator that screws into the timing pin hole, & makes a CLICKY noise when it comes to the indent! Kinda' like an old CLICKY frog I had as a Kid. (I can recall Mamma sayin' "I'm agonna' STEP on thet thing, if I ketch it in the floor"!!!!)
Bill W.
 
Do a forum "search" for the Les Andrews timing videos. There are two videos. It will take you from a to z on timing a Model A.
 
Thanks guys for the ideas. I will have to wait a couple of days to get back at it. Big rain storm here in good old rainy Oregon. Don't want to get the rig wet by taking it out of shop.
 
Marco's timing method is the best (in my opinion).

Always check that the timing pin drops into the hole at exactly TDC by pulling spark plug #1 and looking at the top of the piston with a flashlight. You'd be surprised how often I have seen "timing pin TDC" and "actual TDC" do not match on club members' cars. Luckily, on mine, they match.

Anyway, follow Marco's procedure and, like Steve said, you should never have to time it again (unless you change something).

If you use the 2-piece distributor shaft, it is then also possible to "pre-time" a spare distributor so it is a drop-in replacement if you ever need to do so. I carry a pre-timed spare distributor in the Tudor and can swap it on the road in less than 5 minutes if needed. So, far, that hasn't been needed.

Make sure the last thing you do before you put the cap on is clean the points again. The oil residue on the feeler gage is enough to cause the points to have resistance and make the car run weird.
 
"Make sure the last thing you do before you put the cap on is clean the points again. The oil residue on the feeler gage is enough to cause the points to have resistance and make the car run weird"

Going to have to check this. Could be the problem. It is a "weird" problem.

Thanks P.S.
 
Dbbc said:
The best way I found is to take the spark plug out of cylinder #1 and lay it on top of the cylinder. (take the other spark plug out as well, so it is easer to crank).
Then crank the car with the hand crank and make sure that the spark plug on cylinder #1 fire just has the pin hit the hole in the flywheel.
Make sure you don't have gas in the cylinder (let it sit open for awhile and let the gas evaporate) because the flame that shot out of the cylinder almost burned my eyebrows.
Click to expand...

With this method If you don't take all the plugs out you run the risk of engine kicking on you while your hand arm is near the fan blade! Better to take the top cap off and remove the rotor and watch for the spark between the points. This is Fords method of checking your timing
 
You can check your timing by retarding the spark lever, remove the distributor cap and body, turn on the ignition key (make sure your car is in neutral with E-Brake on). Press on the timing pin and slowly crank the engine until the pin sets into the timing gear recess. Do this while watching the points. At the exact moment the timing pin falls into the timing gear recess the points should spark. If not your timing is off. Make sure your point surfaces are clean first.
 
Just thought I would report back on what I found with this problem.

First of all, I put on another carb with made the rig run much better.

Checked the timing again and it was a bit off based on Tom's method. Adjust that again. But still don't see much difference between when the spark lever is all the way up or all the way down. It run a little bit better down but not much. Checked for the movement of the spark lever on the distributor to assure it moved all the distance it was suppose to. Put on another distributor body because the lever seemed to not go all the way to advanced. Different body let the lever move further advanced. Still not much difference between all the way up or down.

Found another problem. It seemed to run a little ruff. So I grounded out each spark plug and found that #4 did not make much difference with the way it ran when grounded while all the rest did make a difference. So I replaced plug #4 and that solved the ruff running problem.

Thanks again for all the help and ideas. I still have the problem of not getting much difference in the way it runs with the spark lever all the way up vs all the way down. So still have some more working on that. Any more ideas?

Except for the above mentioned concern, the old rig does run great.
 
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