Floorboard bolts/cup washers

[d.j. moordigian]

Marco,

NO SHOT intended........thank you for the help!

 

[Dan Partain]

I took some photos of an original and a repro a few years ago. I don't have a photo of the screw. I was also thinking of using a pipe or socket to give the correct form even though the size is a little different.
-DAN

 

[msmaron]

Original Floor Board Washers...

 

[d.j. moordigian]

I took some photos of an original and a repro a few years ago. I don't have a photo of the screw. I was also thinking of using a pipe or socket to give the correct form even though the size is a little different.
-DAN

Dan,.....I think that would work....BUT,..use 2 different sizes of pipe/sockets
to get the rolled edge form. Do you have a press? Make sense?
If not, call me.
Dudley

 

[ModAfan]

Roy Nacewicz (www.fordbolts.com) offers a fine set of floorboard bolts and washers made to original Ford specs.

 

[wrndln]

It looks like Roy Nacewicz has implemented a $25 minimum order not including shipping for his parts. This is bad in my opinion if you just need a few special fasteners, like I have order from him in the past.
Rusty Nelson

 

[d.j. moordigian]

Roy Nacewicz (www.fordbolts.com) offers a fine set of floorboard bolts and washers made to original Ford specs.

I'd like to see some photos of what they look like!...?

 

[Charles Reese]

I took some photos of an original and a repro a few years ago. I don't have a photo of the screw. I was also thinking of using a pipe or socket to give the correct form even though the size is a little different.
-DAN

==============================
Some info from my notes:

CUP WASHER
- plain steel or raven finish
- 3/8” opening in center (repro = 1/4” or 5/16”); head does not contact floor mat
- sorry, cannot recall source so cannot offer credit where due! … Place a reproduction washer on it facing down like to install on floorboards on a 1/2” socket. Place a 9/16" socket on top & gently hit it down with a hammer … will raise a ring like original.


SCREW:
- {J.S.’16}: 12-24 x 1-1/8” flat head screws (zinc plated or raven finish)
- unthreaded 1/4” below the screw head (repros =full threads)

Photo 1&2 ... original cups
Photo 3 … repro cups ‘tweaked’ with above method
Photo 4 … orig screws (note unthreaded area)

 

[wrndln]

Charles,
Where did you you find the #12 1 1/8" screws? It seems like most vendors sell 1 1/4" long screws. I have noticed that modern #12 screws have a slightly smaller head on them.
Rusty Nelson

 

[Charles Reese]

Charles,
Where did you you find the #12 1 1/8" screws? It seems like most vendors sell 1 1/4" long screws. I have noticed that modern #12 screws have a slightly smaller head on them.
Rusty Nelson

i have a couple of 'originals' but have not found proper modern replacments .. the one in the green backed photo is from someone else (sorry, dont recall whom to give credit to). will use repros until i find more originals ...

my post was only trying to show a way (sockets) of making a 'cup' shape resembling original. other info is just from my 'working files'

 

[denniskliesen]

Ok, I GOOFED on that one! I forgot that the early cars used A-9712 which has only the countersink portion and no outer flange. I think we mentioned it in Area-1 but didn't go look.

Can somebody tell me what page these washers are in Ford Model A Standard Hardware for nuts bolts and washers?

I just looked at my floor board washers and the original are flat, appear smaller OD with a larger screw head. The repop are larger OD and the screw heads are smaller. Later today I'll remove one of each and post a photo for comparison.

 

[Charles Reese]

pg 11-4 (2016 revision)

 

[denniskliesen]

Ok that is in the Judging Standards except on page 11-5 Revised 2016 of my book. They don't give much of a description of the washer except it is either plain or raven finish special countersink. What about the Hardware Guide - a different book? I have looked through all the pages... I guess I'm going blind.

 

[Tom Wesenberg]

The green picture in #28 is what I posted of my original screw and washer.
I've only seen flat top washers as original.
Modern finishing washers have the convex top surface.

 

[denniskliesen]

Tom, I think we are on the same page, just not in the MARC books. My original screw and washers are plain not ravin finish. They fit each other much better than the repop do. I never noticed that until now. Time to get the lathe and plain fender washers I have out...

 

[wrndln]

Note that in the last picture posted by Dennis directly above this post, the modern #12 head is smaller than the original #12 screw. I noticed this sometime back when I was replacing some dinged up screws in the hinges of my 29 pickup. The modern #12 screws sunk down inside the countersunk screw holes more than the original screws. Maybe Dennis can mic the diameter of the original screw heads and the modern screw heads, as it looks like he has a mic available. I am wondering if the original #12 heads are more like 1/4" flathead machine screw heads in size.
Rusty Nelson

 

[Dan Partain]

Dudley & Charles, Thanks for the photos and the ideas on making the repro's look more like the originals. Since the repro's aren't really the same size as the originals, that's probably the closest to the shape that can be done, but they're better than just flat, the way the come from the suppliers.

Dennis, nice photos and comparison of original and repro. It's interesting to see the screws inserted into the washers, there's quite a difference.

I don't want to start that discussion again, but holy cow, this shouldn't be a difficult piece to reproduce correctly.

 

[denniskliesen]

Note that in the last picture posted by Dennis directly above this post, the modern #12 head is smaller than the original #12 screw. I noticed this sometime back when I was replacing some dinged up screws in the hinges of my 29 pickup. The modern #12 screws sunk down inside the countersunk screw holes more than the original screws. Maybe Dennis can mic the diameter of the original screw heads and the modern screw heads, as it looks like he has a mic available. I am wondering if the original #12 heads are more like 1/4" flathead machine screw heads in size.
Rusty Nelson

More pictures? No problem. One of the POs painted the interior floor with black paint because they didn't know any better so ignore the black paint on the original washer, I hadn't scraped it off yet.

 

[denniskliesen]

Dudley & Charles, Thanks for the photos and the ideas on making the repro's look more like the originals. Since the repro's aren't really the same size as the originals, that's probably the closest to the shape that can be done, but they're better than just flat, the way the come from the suppliers.

Dennis, nice photos and comparison of original and repro. It's interesting to see the screws inserted into the washers, there's quite a difference.

I don't want to start that discussion again, but holy cow, this shouldn't be a difficult piece to reproduce correctly.

Ha! Yeah at least easy for me to do the few I need. I threw away about 20# of fender washers a year and a half ago that will almost work perfect for these. Oh well

 

[d.j. moordigian]

Dudley & Charles, Thanks for the photos and the ideas on making the repro's look more like the originals. Since the repro's aren't really the same size as the originals, that's probably the closest to the shape that can be done, but they're better than just flat, the way the come from the suppliers.

Dennis, nice photos and comparison of original and repro. It's interesting to see the screws inserted into the washers, there's quite a difference.

I don't want to start that discussion again, but holy cow, this shouldn't be a difficult piece to reproduce correctly.

Dan,..your correct! Now I'm thinking about making the flat head screws,
correctly, which is a real PAIN! I'm sure that my washers will pass FP,
but the screws are kind of a big deal..

More pictures? No problem. One of the POs painted the interior floor with black paint because they didn't know any better so ignore the black paint on the original washer, I hadn't scraped it off yet.

Dennis,..thank you for posting all the measurements!