rotorwrench
Well-known member
Second gear for removal and reinstallation. All of the gear change grooves for each synchronizer and reverse gear have to be properly aligned with the shift forks for an easier stab at reintallation.
F150 ****** with overdrive
- Thread starter Ray A from PA
- Start date
Ed Saniewski
Well-known member
That worked ,thanks
I was going to send a PM, but I didn't have enough posts 
Hello,
Thanks for posting the information on the "Goldilocks" combination.
Starting the salvager hunt for the SROD components you have listed.
The question I have is does it matter which RTS I start with? B, C or D ratios?
Sorry if the answer is obvious, but I could see where it made a difference?
Had been follow the RTS for a model for a number of years but until this "Goldilocks" combo was I identified I was heading a different route.
Thanks in advance!!
Richard
Hello,
Thanks for posting the information on the "Goldilocks" combination.
Starting the salvager hunt for the SROD components you have listed.
The question I have is does it matter which RTS I start with? B, C or D ratios?
Sorry if the answer is obvious, but I could see where it made a difference?
Had been follow the RTS for a model for a number of years but until this "Goldilocks" combo was I identified I was heading a different route.
Thanks in advance!!
Richard
alexiskai
Well-known member
I think he was getting his info from here:
https://www.fordgarage.com/pages/TremecT170FT.htm
https://www.fordgarage.com/pages/TremecT170FT.htm
rotorwrench
Well-known member
The SROD is not the same as the TOD used in the F-150s. Some ratios in the T170 RTS TOD were for the 6-cylinder applications with different rear axle gearing. Some were for 4X4 with transfer case applications. The ratio I like was used in the rear wheel drive V8 applications for the most part.
This article has info. https://www.f150hub.com/trans/t170-smod-srod-tod.html
The TOD has a top shift feature the others don't have. The SROD is Side Rail overdrive and the SMOD has three side mounted shift rails and a cast iron case.
This article has info. https://www.f150hub.com/trans/t170-smod-srod-tod.html
The TOD has a top shift feature the others don't have. The SROD is Side Rail overdrive and the SMOD has three side mounted shift rails and a cast iron case.
Last edited:
Hey all
I know this is a very old post but has anyone ever considered this:
A model a stock 3 speed transmission has the following gear ratios
3.12 1st, 1.85 2nd, 1.0 3rd
An iron cased 3+1 overdrive has the following
3.29 1st, 1.84 2nd, 1.00 3rd, .81 4th,
The gears in 1-3 of both transmissions are very similar
If a shifter can be made to work would this be a good choice?
I only ask because the iron units can be had for less than 400 dollars in most cases and parts are still available
What are your thoughts?
This is just food for thought and making conversation
Thanks in advance
Dave
I know this is a very old post but has anyone ever considered this:
A model a stock 3 speed transmission has the following gear ratios
3.12 1st, 1.85 2nd, 1.0 3rd
An iron cased 3+1 overdrive has the following
3.29 1st, 1.84 2nd, 1.00 3rd, .81 4th,
The gears in 1-3 of both transmissions are very similar
If a shifter can be made to work would this be a good choice?
I only ask because the iron units can be had for less than 400 dollars in most cases and parts are still available
What are your thoughts?
This is just food for thought and making conversation
Thanks in advance
Dave
MALAK
Senior Member
This can be and has been done. The iron case, Ford toploader and toploader imposter (O.D.) are the same class of transmission as the Tremec T170 and Jeep T176, many of the parts are interchangeable between them.
The Jeep T176 top cover & shift forks can be fitted to an iron case O.D. toploader with minimal modification. A notch has to be machined or ground into the gasket surface of the case to allow clearance for installing top cover with shift forks.
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/toploader-4-speed-conversion-to-top-shift-jeep-shifter-quick-how-to.1139513/
There is more info out there on the web. I found this one with just a quick look.
Tom
Tom
Thank you for the reply!
I need to get inside of a T170 and see “how” they manage to make the shifter work
I know about the T176 and adapting to a traditional Toploader
My only concern was the Overdriven gear being in place of the 3rd gear in a Toploader
If we use a T176 tower it will give us an odd shift pattern
I think the T170 did something different with the shifter as the gear layout is the same
My thoughts are primarily that the gear ratios in that specific transmission is about PERFECT for our cars
Thank you for responding I really appreciate the input
Dave
Thank you for the reply!
I need to get inside of a T170 and see “how” they manage to make the shifter work
I know about the T176 and adapting to a traditional Toploader
My only concern was the Overdriven gear being in place of the 3rd gear in a Toploader
If we use a T176 tower it will give us an odd shift pattern
I think the T170 did something different with the shifter as the gear layout is the same
My thoughts are primarily that the gear ratios in that specific transmission is about PERFECT for our cars
Thank you for responding I really appreciate the input
Dave
MALAK
Senior Member
Dave,
You are correct about the T170 internals. There is a small toggle lever that pivots in the bulge on the left side of the transmission case. This reverses the operation of the shift fork so that 1:1 (straight through) is 3rd gear and O.D. is 4th gear. Again, you are correct that with a T176 shift tower on an iron case Toploader the shift pattern is goofy but it works.
Tom
You are correct about the T170 internals. There is a small toggle lever that pivots in the bulge on the left side of the transmission case. This reverses the operation of the shift fork so that 1:1 (straight through) is 3rd gear and O.D. is 4th gear. Again, you are correct that with a T176 shift tower on an iron case Toploader the shift pattern is goofy but it works.
Tom
Attachments
MALAK
Senior Member
Dave,
It is possible but not all parts are interchangeable. In fact, I have successfully created a "Goldilocks Ratio" T170 as mentioned here,
https://www.fordgarage.com/pages/TremecT170FT.htm
The parts to do this are very hard to come by. So, it is possible to put iron case gears into the aluminum case T170 but have to be careful of bearing sizes/journal sizes as not all will interchange.
If you are looking to change a D ratio T170 to a B ratio T170 I may have a gearset available. I have 2 T170s and will be changing both to the Goldilocks ratio so I will have B ratio gearsets available. It's been a while since I've looked at them so I'd have to inspect them for condition.
Tom
It is possible but not all parts are interchangeable. In fact, I have successfully created a "Goldilocks Ratio" T170 as mentioned here,
https://www.fordgarage.com/pages/TremecT170FT.htm
The parts to do this are very hard to come by. So, it is possible to put iron case gears into the aluminum case T170 but have to be careful of bearing sizes/journal sizes as not all will interchange.
If you are looking to change a D ratio T170 to a B ratio T170 I may have a gearset available. I have 2 T170s and will be changing both to the Goldilocks ratio so I will have B ratio gearsets available. It's been a while since I've looked at them so I'd have to inspect them for condition.
Tom
MALAK
Senior Member
Richard, Dave,
Here's a list of the parts needed.
Vince (Ford Garage, https://www.fordgarage.com/pages/TremecT170FT.htm) has also done a great job tabulating the parts needed but here's a list, taken from the MG_Trans cataloge.
- T170-16G / D8UZ7017B, INPUT SHAFT FORD TRUCK 22T - 8-7/8” O.A.
- T170-11D / D8UZ7B340B, 4TH GEAR (O.D.) FORD TRUCK 19T - 1978-84 IRON CASE
- E1TZ7061C / T170-2M, MAIN SHAFT - FORD TRUCK 19.34”, 32-37, 31 SPL. 4X4
- E0TZ7061C / T170-2K, MAIN SHAFT - FORD TRUCK 23-11/32” - 1980-85, 32-37-28 SPL., SPEEDO 1-1/4” BEHIND REAR BRG 2WD
- T170-8D / D8UZ7113B, CLUSTER GEAR - FORD TRUCK R31-34-23-15 O.D.
You'll notice from the list that the 3 gears needed (input shaft, 4th OD, and Cluster) all have PNs that start with D8UZ. This, Ford PN, breaks down to a 1978 Ford Econoline van. So that's the trans (or parts for) needed to create the Goldilocks ratio.
I listed two output shafts, both are T170 TRUCK shafts. The 4x4 shaft is ideal but the 2WD shaft will work as well. I know for a fact that many of the car output shafts have too small a diameter, behind the rear bearing, to be splined for the Model A u-joint yoke.
This Gentleman, named Merlin, has some of these parts. He's a real nice guy to deal with but he's not cheap. Also, these parts show up on eBay from time to time.https://mmerlinn.com/
How many 1978 Ford Econoline vans were made with a 4-speed O.D.? Probably not many. So this is kind of a rare beast but the parts are out there.
Tom
MALAK
Senior Member
Richard,
See attached pics. The shaft on the far left (in the group of 4) is an iron case car transmission shaft and the diameter is too small to spline for Model A u-joint. The two middle shafts are 4x4 shafts. Notice the absence of the speedometer gear journal. The shaft on the right is 2WD and has the speedometer gear journal. The small hole in the speedometer journal ends up leaving a small divet in the splines for the u-joint. Also, the diameter of the shaft just beyond the speedometer journal nominal for splining. Since the shafts are case hardened this makes it a little harder to machine in this area. Doable and completely usable but the 4x4 shaft is a little easier.
Tom
