Expecting too much from '40 steering box?

fordman said:
rotowrench,
Pecos Army Air Base caught my attention; I have a discarded relic from Rattlesnake Bomber Base: a bugle.
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The Rattle Snake Bomber base is very close by to Pecos. It is in the middle of nowhere between Pecos and Monahans at a little watering hole named Pyote, Tx. That was a very big base back in the day. After the war they stored lots of B-29s there. If you look at a Google Earth satellite image of Pyote, you can still see the outline of the whole base. That was the Conferderate Air Force's first base right after they completely deactivated it back in the 60s. All that's there now is the ruins of one of the hangars.

My Pop was in the 774th squadron of the 463 bomb group (heavy) of the 15th AAF and they were based in Foggia, Italy after a short stay in Tunisia. Here's a pic of Pop & the Miss U in Foggia
 

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BILLF/TRF said:
One other adjustment that could be checked is the number of shims used in adjusting the worm bearing. Removing too many will result in stiffness in revolving the steering wheel and not allowing the steering wheel to return to center on its own after going around a corner.
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The OP stated he has removed all the shims and still had axial movement. I think the worm or bearings are worn out. One end of the worm looks strange. Someone may have refaced the bearing surface on that end. A shim could be put under the bearing. New worm and roller sure are nice.
 
If you bought new bearing and races one thing comes to mind.
macs catalog says large race goes up top.
The way it goes is the small bearing is to top.
The tube should be removed from shaft and fixed to bottom plate.
Thats to keep the oil from draining out.
Next the big bearing race should stick out of the box about .030+/-
No shims will bind shaft,
Adding shims will give clearance so as to not bind.
When there is no drag and plate is tight with shims no longer adjustments needed.
I guess the bearing could be backwards that would put the center of the worm off center,makeing to much play in sector.
 
make sure box isnt too tight buy dick pitman arm.if ok turn wheels back and forth to make sure theres no bind in linkikage.if camber is close u should b good.not that fussyunless u got some weird front end. no offense.
 
I usually like to set the box up by hand before I connect it to the drag link. That way you can feel for shake in the pitman arm easily. Take all the shake out then make sure it rotates freely without binding or notchy feel to it. If you can't take all the play out at centered position, something is worn beyond tolerance.
 
rotorwrench said:
I usually like to set the box up by hand before I connect it to the drag link. That way you can feel for shake in the pitman arm easily. Take all the shake out then make sure it rotates freely without binding or notchy feel to it. If you can't take all the play out at centered position, something is worn beyond tolerance.
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Am inclined to agree with your thinking; I believe it's a bad worm, although visually it looked fine to me, the sector is NOS. I tried NO shims and turned sector adjustment screw all the way in and Pitman arm would still rotate back & forth slightly.
I only have 4 3/8's turns lock to lock and should have 4 1/2, could this be a clue to why I'm having problems? 1/8 turn equals about 45°, so after centering my wheels and attaching drag link with steering wheel centered; when I drive down the road I have to keep steering wheel cocked 45° to the right to go straight. Or am I over thinking this; centered is centered whether 4 3/8's or 4 1/2 turns. Back to centering the steering wheel; in theory my steering wheel should be centered at 2 3/16's turns rather than 2 1/4 turns but at 2 3/16's my Woodruff key would not be in the exact 6 o'clock position that it should be. Bottom line, is this box just not useable? I have another one I can rebuild. Included picture is worm that's in the box now.
 

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Remember the wear factor. New gears are made with a "high spot" at the straight ahead position to eliminate play in the steering wheel, and allow some looseness when turning to prevent any bind which would prevent the wheel from returning to straight ahead after the turn. However--Maybe the original owner drove with an out of balance tire shaking the wheel for a few thousand miles, the next owner drove lickety-split over rutted and pot-holed dirt roads and nobody lubed the steering box. So now the high spot has become the low spot on the gear, so if you adjust it in the straight ahead position, you may now have a bind when turning.
 
40 Deluxe said:
Remember the wear factor. New gears are made with a "high spot" at the straight ahead position to eliminate play in the steering wheel, and allow some looseness when turning to prevent any bind which would prevent the wheel from returning to straight ahead after the turn. However--Maybe the original owner drove with an out of balance tire shaking the wheel for a few thousand miles, the next owner drove lickety-split over rutted and pot-holed dirt roads and nobody lubed the steering box. So now the high spot has become the low spot on the gear, so if you adjust it in the straight ahead position, you may now have a bind when turning.
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What you says makes sense; I never could detect the "high spot" after rebuilding the box. Am going to back off adjusting screw and see if that allows the steering to center itself after exiting a corner. Am wondering about the logic of rebuilding the other box I have and expecting better results using the worm & sector that came with it. Visually, the parts look good but apparently there's more to it than appearance.
 
The worm gear can be replaced but it takes some tooling to get back together without damage to the steering shaft. Most folks make their own tooling and there are a number of threads on this forum about this task. All of the 37 though 48 left hand drive cars use the same worm so they are available. You can also purchase a sector roller kit to replace those.

Some suppliers will do the job for you and sell them on an exchange basis for the more popular models.

The only other problem I can think of would be a mismach of parts or incorrect parts.
 
Measured the (vanes?) in the cork screw section of the worm and got the following: upper vane 1.628, middle vane 1.421 and lower 1.587. Are these variations in diameter to be expected from vane to vane? Does this indicate wear or is this as it came from there factory? To answer this I guess someone would have to have access to a known good worm.
 
What you are measuring will not show wear they don't touch anything.
When you had the plate off the lower bearing race should have stuck out from box about .030
The worm shown is the old one and the new one is in the car now.
The tube in pic is that in car now?
Also a 37 to 48 is 3 1/2 turns lock to lock.
You ether left the top bearing race out or the bearings are no good or the box you have is not a 40 to 48. With no shims it should bind.
When you setup the box should be in vise and do shaft first no tube or wheel.
Looks like your going to do it over.
 
George/Maine said:
What you are measuring will not show wear they don't touch anything.
When you had the plate off the lower bearing race should have stuck out from box about .030
The worm shown is the old one and the new one is in the car now.
The tube in pic is that in car now?
Also a 37 to 48 is 3 1/2 turns lock to lock.
You ether left the top bearing race out or the bearings are no good or the box you have is not a 40 to 48. With no shims it should bind.
When you setup the box should be in vise and do shaft first no tube or wheel.
Looks like your going to do it over.
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The worm & tube shown are currently in the car now. Is the tube suppose to be there, because the new worm & shaft I have doesn't have that tube protruding from it? With race sticking out .030" beyond box, how does end plate fit on flush? When I rebuilt the box, replaced upper & lower races & bearings. Don't know how I came up with the 4 1/2 turns lock to lock, will verify tomorrow when car is on jack stands.
 
I would take the plate off and remove the tube.
It could be hitting the plate and messing up the shims, most likely frozen.
The tube should be fixed to plate, only the shaft turns around to tube , its to keep oil in box.
Until you see race .030 out of box something wrong.
 
Okay, if I remove the tube will I have lubricant leaking out, currently using John Deer "Corn Head" for lubricant. When setting up the box you said "no tube or wheel" by wheel do you mean the sector shaft, no steering wheel?
 
When setting up out of car you don,t need steering tube.
I use a small vise grip to turn shaft.The race sticking out of case is to apply pressure to bearings.The shims ,no shims will bind, add shims to turn free smooth turning.Once the bolts are tight with shims you are done.
Now the sector should drop in.
If you have another way to use horn you could maybe use a screw and nut with nut on out side. oil won,t leak out or weld hole in.
With box still in car get the tube out or bang in so not to hit plate.
The plate should only touch the race.
The tube could be binding the shaft so you can,t get setup correct.
 
George/Maine said:
When setting up out of car you don,t need steering tube.
I use a small vise grip to turn shaft.The race sticking out of case is to apply pressure to bearings.The shims ,no shims will bind, add shims to turn free smooth turning.Once the bolts are tight with shims you are done.
Now the sector should drop in.
If you have another way to use horn you could maybe use a screw and nut with nut on out side. oil won,t leak out or weld hole in.
With box still in car get the tube out or bang in so not to hit plate.
The plate should only touch the race.
The tube could be binding the shaft so you can,t get setup correct.
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Thanks George.
 
Here's latest update on steering: Lock to lock, left or right is 4 1/8 turns, am recently told 3 1/2 turns is correct. I have 3 1/2"'s of play in the steering wheel. Sector screw is backed off 1/8 turn from making contact, steering wheel turns freely with current gasket setup but am never able to feel "high spot" in centered position. After centering wheels & steering wheel and adjusting drag link, this is the steering wheel position to keep car going straight. I have replaced bearings & races; at this point should I assume this box isn't rebuildable or useable as it currently is?
 

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I have always checked steering wheel play by turning left and right not moving the wheels.
I think 1 1/2" is the limit.
Your wheel looks like you could try 1/8 shorter on the drag link.
How much play in steering wheel.
 
George/Maine said:
I have always checked steering wheel play by turning left and right not moving the wheels.
I think 1 1/2" is the limit.
Your wheel looks like you could try 1/8 shorter on the drag link.
How much play in steering wheel.
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Steering wheel play with the wheels on the ground is 3 1/2". I think I may box everything up and send to expert.
 
Yep, 3 1/2" is huge, I agree with the 1 1/2" or less. I'll be interested in the outcome here, I'm fascinated by the fact that your worm won't bind with no shims. Sounds like a wrong part slipped in there somehow.
Martin.
 
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