Engine troubles

With a rigid hone i would use a honing oil that was recommended by the manufacturer.Or a good honing oil vender. More people than sunnen supply a good product.

The 3 legged hone you describe on steroids I would not even use for stock removal of .002" that you indicated. A precision hone operation for the removal of .002" as you stated is what is required after boring.
Must be done with a "rigid hone". Removing .002" on a re ring is a recipe for disaster.

The bottle brush hone you refer to is a good method of deg lazing a cylinder for a re ring the project that this discussion was intended for. You will have a birthday before you can rely on a flex hone to remove .002" with any accuracy.Not what it is intended for. The lube here could be many home brews like the ones you use.Engine oil an accepted preferred method. Flex hone oil sold by brush research.Kerosene and oil all though why some do that I never figured out maybe because their grandpa did it but not with a flex hone they didn't have them back then.. It will work.I suppose water may work with a flex hone also never tried it or have never seen it done. Most petrolium based lubes will get the job done with a flex hone.

To once again to refer to your question of a better honing solution it depends on the job process not your personal recommendations. With a flex hone for deg laze you read my answer
With a rigid hone you also see my reply.

The 3 legged spring loaded hone for good engine work throw it i the ditch or give it back to the old fart that was teaching 50 years of bad habits in engine rebuilding.

Don't even want to comment on that procedure but they still exist. Any some guy's even buy them.

I know of no creditable eng rebuilding shop that would entertain using one of those turds on their engines no matter how many different ways you try it.

BTW a couple of quick lite passes with a rigid hone could be done on a re ring if in the hands of a competant machinist if that was all they had.

You now see why I asked what method you were referring to.
I hope this aids in what procedure is done and some accepted lubes.Any I missed someone else add their wisdom here

Ronnie
 
I see exactly wht byou're speaking about, just for clarty, the only bores I've opened up another .001 and .oo3, were on non-way engines,,,things that like combines, older trtactors, bailers, etc, that had a bore taper, with some ridge, and after cutting thwe ridge, we wold sontinue the "in frame" and runn .oo2 over sized rings, lasted lots of years that way...I'm not talking ;like I am a machiniest, please disregard any mention I may have attribued that to my self, other than way back when, working ni some machien shops.

The large hone I refrreed to, was normally used on air and hydrulic cylinders, but I used it a bfew trimes on sme Perkins sleeved 188 deisels, and the bigger brother (bot hast cast iron liners) to pull the last little bit for clearnce,,,these engines do not rev (deisel) but do run in the 15:1-16:1 CR, so if things were amiss, we'd have known by now! :)

But, just FYI...many cutting "oils" (and probaly many that you hav used) are water soluble, when mixed up, the "oil/fluid" is what does the cuting, and the "homogeneous" solution createed, is what keeps the water "stivcking" to the cutter(brush, stone/etc") and is what cools the both to mke nice cut, not over heat either.

The word OIL is used, but an oil is a lubricant, not a cuting aid, motor oil, gear oil, etc, will give yiou a worma and fuzzy that you bit is not beng worn down, but,,,it's because of th shear layer properties of the oil...when we cut, we want to cut, not push thru the sharing properties of siad fluid.

I'm sre if you had chem buddy look through all your Sunnen "oils" forcutting, you'd find that they do not lube anything, they are desined to cut/scrape/etc and promote longer tool life.

Anyways, seems we'll not agree, that's fine, but we kept our differenes civil, nd have given some that may come aross this thread smething to ponder...me...we'll when I want to take metal away, Ill use a soluble/cutting fluid:)
 
Sounds good to me

I would like to know where you would buy .002" over rings? That is a bit of a mystery.
Give me the part numbers so I can sell them . "LOL" Thanks for the clarity so others can consider what info is creditable when they seek info here on the old ford barn.

Regards

Ronnie
 
I'm afraid there are still lots of guys out there doing it the "way they were taught" decades ago by a questionable expert. There is a world of difference between a coolant used in a drilling, sawing or milling operation and an oil used during grinding, honing or lapping. Heavy oil is better at carrying away the metal removed during the operation while keeplng the particles from agglomerating, helping to prevent micro-gouging of the cylinder or clogging of the abrasive stone(s). Bob L
 
Fordy Welcome to the world of common sense. Isn't there some scary ideas in this thread, they need to be weeded out to give those that desire correct info to get the job done. This is 2010 not 1910.
 
Ronnie said:
Sounds good to me

I would like to know where you would buy .002" over rings? That is a bit of a mystery.
Give me the part numbers so I can sell them . "LOL" Thanks for the clarity so others can consider what info is creditable when they seek info here on the old ford barn.

Regards

Ronnie
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Thsats so funny, your comet abut "Where to ny"


Just a little education, and you (feel feel free) to look things up in the history books, but "In the day", you could easily walk into any parts store nd get a .010.,020, etc...for just about any aplication you needed....now ezcuse me if you live in the .o60...toss the block world.......but we never did!

PS...no Idea why I mentionmed NY
 
Ronnie said:
Fordy Welcome to the world of common sense. Isn't there some scary ideas in this thread, they need to be weeded out to give those that desire correct info to get the job done. This is 2010 not 1910.
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YA KNOW WHAT...i THINK YOU ARE RIGHT"

Just hone , and cut, and drill with motor oil...it's the preferred method, so has to be right?


BTW...hope ya-calll your macine shops and ask them, how much motor oil you use to cut my block?

Simple question, but I'm not the voice of reason.
 
Why don't you learn to READ your what post says This a cut and paste from your above rant.!!!!!!!!!

"I see exactly wht byou're speaking about, just for clarty, the only bores I've opened up another .001 and .oo3, were on non-way engines,,,things that like combines, older trtactors, bailers, etc, that had a bore taper, with some ridge, and after cutting thwe ridge, we wold sontinue the "in frame" and runn .oo2 over sized rings, lasted lots of years that way...I'm not talking ;like I am a machiniest, please disregard any mention I may have attribued that to my self, other than way back when, working ni some machien shops."

Where did I say you couldn't buy .020" .030" .040" or any other size other than .002". Please learn to read and remember what you quote,as things here get more strange posters will not have much faith in the info you post. I have no way of knowing what you refer to with your stated sizes.Can only say what you see is what you get. once again .002" oversize "WTF" "LOL" I should show this post to some of the machine shops I call on We could get a lot of chuckles "

YOUR TURN"

You stated .002" .001" .003" For a "dis regarded machinist" that rebuilt engines you can't read or measure or type please explain for the other posters so we know exactly you mean to get things corrected. Any other comments?
 
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Ronnie said:
Why don't you learn to READ your what post says This a cut and paste from your above rant.!!!!!!!!!

"I see exactly wht byou're speaking about, just for clarty, the only bores I've opened up another .001 and .oo3, were on non-way engines,,,things that like combines, older trtactors, bailers, etc, that had a bore taper, with some ridge, and after cutting thwe ridge, we wold sontinue the "in frame" and runn .oo2 over sized rings, lasted lots of years that way...I'm not talking ;like I am a machiniest, please disregard any mention I may have attribued that to my self, other than way back when, working ni some machien shops."

Where did I say you couldn't buy .020" .030" .040" or any other size other than .002". Please learn to read and remember what you quote,as things here get more strange posters will not have much faith in the info you post. I have no way of knowing what you refer to with your stated sizes.Can only say what you see is what you get. once again .002" oversize "WTF" "LOL" I should show this post to some of the machine shops I call on We could get a lot of chuckles "

YOUR TURN"

You stated .002" .001" .003" For a "dis regarded machinist" that rebuilt engines you can't read or measure or type please explain for the other posters so we know exactly you mean to get things corrected. Any other comments?
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My mn, I was not ranting, but quoted another post..so please reared you self, and let's see if we'ree on the same page.

Sorry about the caps lock...you may think I'm rnting, but it's just I type while looking at he keyboard then hit "send"...so please disregrad cap's (as I have metioned before), as I'm niot yelling...but tkew it as you like.

So...if you wouldcare to read wht other's hd posted, and noticed what you spoke of as to the "where can I buy..."...you see what I said, in just plain old English, "bck in the day, it was easy to buy over sized rings of nearly about anything you wanted..,,but you hve been doing "this" for so long, I'm sure you know tht, correct?


Or is this a rant? I dunno...nmust be because you've been at it for 25 years, I only keep my things running.

Wanna share a few war stories?
 
Well dang, I think it's about time to give some background here...sure, you don't know me from Adam...but I learned from a heck of an older gentlemen (who has long sinvce passed), but was the type of guy if you ran a grinding wheel in the shop, and he had an open can of grease, he tossed it...becuse he knew liitlle bit of the emery flying in the air could get into a beaing somday and kill it.

He also schooled me on how to run a drill, lahe, and a mill..sure, he isn't known s a "major name", but heck...I was turning armetures at 16...could you...{no one specific"...just asking...He also was the guy who told me and eplained why, when you grab grease gun, make a short pump, wipe the end grese off, so you don't pump any grit where it sholnt be, lso taughet ne how to pack beqarings, not to spin a dry bearing, etc, etc.

So, I've been at tis "game" fro near 35 years (Im 48) but have been taught and laernd by one of the best (IMO) on what and why is the correct thing to do...and why not...

So it's no rnt on m part, heck, if ya'll want to hone your blocks with engine oil...so beit...if ya'lll want to use engine oil and yor "cuttng fluid " when ddrillng a hole...so be it...have a good one with either, it;s your tools and your time.

And yes, you can pu;ll a .002 taper ot of a bore by hand...ofcourse ypou'd know that if ypou lived in the real world and not in a shop...damned old farts, how did they keep'em running?
 
What in the hell does all this have to do with my original question? if you two guys want to duke it out, start your own damn thread. Been gone to the Iola swap meet and I come back and have to read all this crap.
 
jhstal said:
Even though you say the rod bearings were ok, you may have bent a #5 rod, which may account for the lower skirt problems and bad wear patterns. It does not take much to bend a rod, one washer or fuel-water-coolant hydrolock. Usually a bent rod will show one bad rod wear pattern.
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Bearing wear(which was very little) is very even. I will check the rod though.
 
Mike B said:
I'd hone for sure so the new rings will seat well, plus, with 50K on it, you must have a bit of a ridge at the top of the cylinder....remove it...otherwise new rings will "bang" into the ridge, and could fail/break (depending ont he ridge that there is)...rings and bores wear like cams and lifters...so get both in shape first!
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There is not even a hint of ridge in any of the cylinders.
 
flatjack9 said:
What in the hell does all this have to do with my original question? if you two guys want to duke it out, start your own damn thread. Been gone to the Iola swap meet and I come back and have to read all this crap.
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AMEN BROTHER!!!!!

It is too bad a good Thread like this has to deterate into a "CONTEST".:mad:

Lets all try to sort of stick to the original subject. :)

Chris
 
Nobody's asked about the condition of the head. With the washer bouncing around there should be little peen marks all over the commbustion chamber. I can see in the photos where the carbon coating has been attacked by the washer. The galling on the piston skirt looks old by what appears to be a varnished gas look in the deeper grooves. I'd replace that piston and recheck cylinder wall clearances before reassembly and compare with the other pistons. Sometypes of engines just like a little more skirt clearance than others and the FlatheadV8 is one of them. Check the water jacket at that cyl for a buildup of crud that may not have been thoroughly been removed prior.
 
JWL said:
Actually the motor oil works well with the flex hone. The main purpose is to avoid loading-up of the abrasive. The oil serves to wash away the tiny iron particles which tend to become embedded in the surface of the abrasive. Without some type of oil or fluid the hone will quickly become a iron-on-iron tool. Cooling has nothing to do with it.
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jwl,,hi john i use kerosene when honing have done so for nearly 50 years no problems yet hope all is well over there trev:):):):)
 
Dave72dt said:
Nobody's asked about the condition of the head. With the washer bouncing around there should be little peen marks all over the commbustion chamber. I can see in the photos where the carbon coating has been attacked by the washer. The galling on the piston skirt looks old by what appears to be a varnished gas look in the deeper grooves. I'd replace that piston and recheck cylinder wall clearances before reassembly and compare with the other pistons. Sometypes of engines just like a little more skirt clearance than others and the FlatheadV8 is one of them. Check the water jacket at that cyl for a buildup of crud that may not have been thoroughly been removed prior.
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I use a cast iron head, so there is no damage. Amazingly, the washer seemed to have stayed in one location and did no other damage to the piston. The water jacket is clear. I plan on replacing that piston and naturally will check all the others. Will undoubtedly open clearance slightly. Going to pick up another block(different job) from my machinist tomorrow and will take the pistons for him to look at.
 
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