Engine troubles

Thanks for all the comments guys. I've come to agree that it must have been a startup issue. I've never experienced anything like that and would have thought that it would would have caused a problem. The other pistons have some very slight vertical markings. I'm sure I'll have to replace the one piston,but the others should be reuseable. I'm thinking of doing a light hone job with new rings.
 
I'd hone for sure so the new rings will seat well, plus, with 50K on it, you must have a bit of a ridge at the top of the cylinder....remove it...otherwise new rings will "bang" into the ridge, and could fail/break (depending ont he ridge that there is)...rings and bores wear like cams and lifters...so get both in shape first!
 
When you hone try and use a "flex hone" much better than a 3 legged spring tensioned hone.Flex hones are not that expensive. Some machine shops if you know them well will rent you theirs, they are pretty much idiot proof and work the best.The most important thing is to get the bores clean after the hone. You should hone with 10 30 oil it works well,cooking oil works also and wipes up easily You then wipe the bores out with a shop rag to get most of the oil and hone residue from them. You then can wipe again with another rag to remove more honing residue.Now comes the "important" part wash the bores out with hot water and tide detergent laundry soap Wash them twice more wipe dry with paper towel or clean shop rags.Then check to see if the bore is clean by spraying the cyl wall with wd 40 and then wipe dry and press hard with soft white tissue paper the paper must come out clean if there is any gray smudges you are not clean wash again for perfect results.
Don't listen to any posts that tell you to wash with solvent,diesel,fuel,brake clean gasoline or any other home grown concoction. This is a proven method that will work. You should also wipe up and around the bottoms of cylinders as some residue gets thrown up there also. Then you are ready to inspect before assembly.Any top ridge must be removed as this will become a recipe for top ring failure. Will the engine be removed from car or done in chassis?
 
Well, there are a few possible causes. Lack of lubrication, excessive heat, lack of clearance, contamination, or the bottom of the cylinder wall not chamfered adequately. I don't think the wall chamfer was a problem because it would be difficult for the galling to migrate up that distance on the skirt.

It looks like it made several laps almost dry. Either from heat or lack of oil, or both. Of course a clearance issue would show similarly.

As an aside, we drove a 46 Merc 700+ miles, towing a heavy trailer, without a functioning oil pump. We did put 3 quarts of extra oil in the crankcase but there was zero oil pressure and the coolant temperature was over 200 all that distance. We stopped only long enough to add fuel and cool the radiator to add water. After repairing the oilpump problem we ran that car several thousand more miles without any failures.
 
Jwl good to read some more "common sense" posting not too hard to understand . Its not too difficult to see your response has nailed down the primary cause or causes. Its obvious you to have seen a couple of engine component failures in your Flathead travels. I agree with your statement. I've seen my share also 25 years of them . Sometimes the customer didn't like to believe the answers but life goes on.
Initial cause could be hard to find but once the cyl lubrication properties are compromised that is what you get.Caution should prevail as it could come back and bite him in the @ss without checking many possible causes. I think good a inspection will help cover the basics. Then put it back together .
 
Is it possible that the washer was initially in #5 and then did damage and went out the valve to #6. This happened to a tractor of ours.
 
Ronnie said:
When you hone try and use a "flex hone" much better than a 3 legged spring tensioned hone.Flex hones are not that expensive. Some machine shops if you know them well will rent you theirs, they are pretty much idiot proof and work the best.The most important thing is to get the bores clean after the hone. You should hone with 10 30 oil it works well,cooking oil works also and wipes up easily You then wipe the bores out with a shop rag to get most of the oil and hone residue from them. You then can wipe again with another rag to remove more honing residue.Now comes the "important" part wash the bores out with hot water and tide detergent laundry soap Wash them twice more wipe dry with paper towel or clean shop rags.Then check to see if the bore is clean by spraying the cyl wall with wd 40 and then wipe dry and press hard with soft white tissue paper the paper must come out clean if there is any gray smudges you are not clean wash again for perfect results.
Don't listen to any posts that tell you to wash with solvent,diesel,fuel,brake clean gasoline or any other home grown concoction. This is a proven method that will work. You should also wipe up and around the bottoms of cylinders as some residue gets thrown up there also. Then you are ready to inspect before assembly.Any top ridge must be removed as this will become a recipe for top ring failure. Will the engine be removed from car or done in chassis?
Click to expand...

You have some good things to sy, but just step back a second and listen to what you are saying.

Why would anyone use a lubricant to hone? Why use any oil to drill a hole?,,,....both work the same way, you want the hone to cut metal...you want a drill beit to cut metal...usinbg motor oil just inhibits the p[rocess.

Might be tried and tru for you, but no where near wahat should be done.

Use a solvent, solvent promotes no lubing propeties, but does keep the work head cool....heck, water would be better than motor oil.

If any doubts, just walk into any machine shop and ask then what they use to sut with...they are not concerned about muck, other than keeping thier worl head cool to resist fail;ure and wear.

Motor oil is a lubricant desinged to resist wear, not what you want when you want to promote wear...as in honing, drilling, etc.
 
Actually the motor oil works well with the flex hone. The main purpose is to avoid loading-up of the abrasive. The oil serves to wash away the tiny iron particles which tend to become embedded in the surface of the abrasive. Without some type of oil or fluid the hone will quickly become a iron-on-iron tool. Cooling has nothing to do with it.
 
Mike you should spend some time in a machine shop and ask them how much money they spend on sunnen honing oil you may get a gentle surprise . A post saying to hone without eng oil or lubrication i don't think so .

Thanks JWl improper info is how these wannabees can get themselves in trouble. Perhaps Mike should ask some machine shops what is acceptable.

"Mike" tried and true statement I made wasn't how I would do it it is how it can be done. I have called on 100's of machine shops for 25 years and have seen many fubars that were started by shade tree guys that finally gave up and get it done rite and as JWL says eng oil works very well with a flex hone. Ask a machine shop if water would work or no lube at all and look at the expression on their face "nuf" said.
 
Even though you say the rod bearings were ok, you may have bent a #5 rod, which may account for the lower skirt problems and bad wear patterns. It does not take much to bend a rod, one washer or fuel-water-coolant hydrolock. Usually a bent rod will show one bad rod wear pattern.
 
Ronnie said:
Just a little more fuel for the non believers :D

"Bin there done that"

http://www.brushresearch.com/pdf/FlexHone_Resource_Guide.pdf

http://www.sunnen.com/graphics/assets/documents/4d02ca3fc914.pdf

Ronnie
Click to expand...


Wow, I'm a wanne be...so just look at the very bottom of you posted link...yes, there is a mention of motor oi;ls (whoch 6 year in two different machine shos for me...we did not use) yopu see, water, and water souable oils (for the less informed is a cutting soution that PROMOTES wear, not in hibits it,...plus, just keep reading,,,you posted a link, I'lll await your reply...

Or, do you feel you can run a solublue solution in your engine? If so, gimme a holler, would love to film th e video of the seized up monet.

And yes, keeping the cutting head, even a bottle briush hone cool, jusyt adds to the life of the tool...doesa anyone drill a 1/2 hole w/o cutting (notice I did NOT say oil) but cutting fluid?

Man, think I spent all theses years using cuttng oil and coolant on myn mill, lathe nd derill presses, and who ahve thunk, coulld have sved all those bits and cuttng tools and end mills by just saving nd e suing all my old motpor oil!

Again, just think about it, don't care if your 6 or 60...

Motor oil...made to lubricate a part and to not promote wear

Cutting oil...made to ssist is wear/cutting to take materail away.


Now the "wana be" will step down as I await the folk who will say "I've been using moptor oil for 50 yeas to hone my blocks"...nd most shpops will tell you9, you've been doing it wrong for 50 years.

Love ya all...gotta agree we won't agree!
 
romie, ya had to post another link...dang, just read beforyou post...here's frm Sunnen and thier M30 "oil"..

The most economical general
purpose sulphurized honing oil
available for over 40 years. MB-30
has set the standard by which other
honing oils are judged. Prevents
galling between the workpiece and
the tool, keeps the abrasive clean
and delivers maximum cutting rates
and abrasive life even when honing
difficult materials such as 300 Series
stainless steels. Ideal for locations
where a wide variety of materials
are honed. Also very effective as a
general cutting oil for drilling,
tapping, and reaming. No matter the metal, from aluminum​

to zirconium, MB-30 wor


It's desinged and manufactured to CUT and keep things cool...not lubricate as engione oil does, but what ever...I gotta go drop a pint of sulphur in my engine, cuase cutting oil will lube it good, and since cutting oil has a lot of sulphur/sulpha, must b good for my engine!
 
Mike after reading your response keep on working in a machine and fabrication shop and stay away from giving engine rebuilding tips. I don't profess to be able to make a creditable statement about what they use on mills,drills, cnc and whatever only making a statement about honing cylinder walls and engine rebuilding for a do it yourself guy who needs some guidance on a tip that works.. I don't want to get into a *issing contest about what you did for 6 years in 2 shops on a mill lathe ect. But i will have a conversation about engine rebuilding any time you want and won't have a problem with that.My 25 years of engine shop rebuilding practices will help you much just ask.Don't even try to make a mindless statement about soluble oil in an engine what a lame statement who would do that.Why not beer or tomato juice? Holy cow Goes to show how some things get twisted around lets get back to engine rebuilding and i will gladly help those out who really have some creditable statements. Soluble oil in an engine glad you said that and not me "OMG" Nowhere in my post did say machine shops use engine oil in a ck10. or with a portable sunnen hone or a ridged hone.I said you could use engine oil with a flex hone and it works. That statement made you come unglued.

This can't be real I think i've been had. I could say lets eat $hit how could 100000000 fly's be wrong.

Some one else chime in I'm looking for sanity here LOL
 
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I see where ou're cming from, all's well...

SO let me ask you this...if you have a choice of

a) Soluble oil

B) Motor oil

Which would you use for hoing your cyclinders?

No P-match, just you 25 years of experince to le me know the correct one to use.

I know what I'd use...you?
 
Another lame one. Before i answer what kind of hone?

You already know my answer just looking for the type of hone Don't forget how this thread started lets help Flat jack out. Tell me your honing procedure and I will respond
 
Either hoen I have, I use the same procedure, I have 3 pices hone, about 3 inch abrasives each...sorta like a brake hone on steroids, and several bottle brush hone (which I prefer....easier to maintain by hand an accurate scuffing)...both/all I do by hnd with my 1/2 varible Makita drill, roughly 100-150 (yes...too fast) RPMs...but workig "up ND DOWN WITH EITHER T MY SLOWEST SPEEDS, i CAN SOMEWHAT GET A "CROSS HATCH" (sorry...caps lock stuck...) In generl for both, I've used brake fluid for its cuting ability, ttans fluid to do a light finishing since it does not cut as quickliy, but when I try to take .001-.002 (again by hand) I'll start with old rifle bore cleaner, very sulpuric, mixed gerously with water, to get a good cut.

But, I don't see whether using "type A" or "type B" cuttters/hones would change your response....maybe basic question is what is a better honing soltion...motor oil, or a soluble/cutting oil?
 
PS...justto set the record straight, I learned from some old guys that worked with my fther building firetrucks for Van Pelt in the early/late 60's...used to hang around with the machine shop forman, and gleened some of my (cold be mispsent) knowledge...but it's what I've stuck with over the ;ast 30 yeras.
 
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