Engine froze and want to pull head

Gwill65074

Gwill65074

Senior Member
I can't find anything in the archives about this so here goes. In 2004 I had to travel for work for 2 years and my A was in storage. I had oil in the top of the cylinders, but I guess not enough or it drained past the rings. Anyway, I now have a frozen engine and I would like to pull the head and see if I can fix this. Can someone tell me what I need to do to break it free, just short of breaking the head and removing pieces? I'm open to any suggestions. Thank you.
Glen
 
I'm sure you'll get several suggestions but here's one that worked for me. I mixed up a 50/50 mixture of automatic trans fluid and acetone and squirted about an ounce in each cylinder with a pump oiler and a flex tube. Get the liquid in the clyinders and let it soak overnite. Then put the trans in high gear and rock the car back and forth by hand. Do the rocking with some force and do it several times. Good luck.
 
A little vague. Do you mean you are trying to remove the head and it is also stuck ?? If so it's stuck around the bolts or studs. If so keep working at it unless you end up drilling the bad ones out. I

If you are just taking about pistons being stuck. I use similar as above.. I use trans fluid and gas or diesel. Pour it in and let it set a day and add more till it breaks free.

Wishin the best for ya.
 
Thanks Guys, I'll give these a try. My pistons are froze in the cylinders and the head is also stuck. I'll try the fluid first. Thanks again for your help fellas. By the way, this is my first Model A, 1930 Tudor and I'm trying to do a frame off restoration, by myself and my sons, to one done back in the '80's.
Glen
 
Sometimes the distributor shaft sticks and wont rotate. I broke one by trying to turn the engine. You might want to oil it also.
 
Keep soaking and rocking sometimes takes 3-4 days of soaking to loosen up a frozen engine and you may need a helper to rock it took two of us to break one free don't rush it if your valves are stuck after you get engine unstuck lots of info. on ford barn to free up stuck valves good luck
 
You more than likely have one or more valves stuck in the closed position. You can try rocking it back and forth in high gear with the spark plugs removed and see if the motor will slightly turn backwards. Usually if a valve is stuck closed, the engine will turn a little bit one way but not the other. I wouldn't be so quick to remove the head.
 
I would still back up a little and make sure it is the pistons that are stuck.If you put oil on them,and stored it so moisture couldn't enter,it shouldn't have stuck.If you put a battery in it,and tried to turn it over the starter drive can lock up on the flywheel.You will swear the engine is locked.I ask because it sounds like you haven't got the head off yet,and if it isn't off how could you tell they are stuck?I see this quite a lot where folks have an old car or tractor sitting for years.They first put a charger on it,with this wet dream that the battery might come to life.Then they try to turn it over.The old battery and charger put enough juice through it to just kick in the drive,and there it sits,locked up.I just looked at a Farmall H that had a locked up engine after sitting all winter.They towed it.They put crowbars on the crank trying to free it.They decided to have me do an in-chassis overhaul on it.I told them to hold up,and I went out to look at it.I unbolted the starter,hit it a couple of times with a hammer and heard a clunk as the bendix retracted.I bolted it back up and spun the crank by hand.It must have shot a half gallon of mystery oil out of the plug holes and all over their garage wall.They had charged the battery overnight and hit the starter,but there wasn't enough juice to do any more than lock it in.
 
If the valves are shut you could also put a pipe fitting in and add air pressure from your air compressor to force the lube in too.
 
Here's what I assume has happened. When I went out of town I put the car on jacks and pulled the plugs and poured some oil in each cylinder thinking this would hit the valves and run into the cylinders as well. Then put the plugs back in it. After I returned from out of town 2 years later I didn't try to get my car out of storage for another 6 years. When I did get to it I charged the battery and tried the starter and it would not turn over. I pulled the plugs to look inside and really couldn't tell anything. I did put more oil in the cylinders and then tried the hand crank. No luck. Then I went to the auto parts store down the road and bought a couple bottles of different penetrating oil and doused the cylinders with that. I let it set for a week and then tried rocking the car in third gear for a couple weeks, still no luck. Thus, I've assumed (and I know how that word breaks down) the cylinders are seized. Am I all wet in my approach or thinking? How can I determine if it's the valves? I do remember when I could drive it that if a loaded the engine on a hill, I'd get water boiling back out of the top of the radiator, so I've always figured I have a bad head gasket. I'm open for anything at this point. I really want to get the Ole girl running again so I can go driving miss Daisy, I mean dottie!
Glen
 
Purdy Swoft said:
You more than likely have one or more valves stuck in the closed position. You can try rocking it back and forth in high gear with the spark plugs removed and see if the motor will slightly turn backwards. Usually if a valve is stuck closed, the engine will turn a little bit one way but not the other. I wouldn't be so quick to remove the head.
Click to expand...

That's exactly what I was going to say. It shouldn't be stuck if you oiled the cylinders, so most likely it's the valves that are stuck. Also could be what Keith said, so I wouldn't be pulling the head.:)

You can pull the manifold to oil the valve stems. Kroil is a good penetrating oil.
 
Keith True said:
I would still back up a little and make sure it is the pistons that are stuck.If you put oil on them,and stored it so moisture couldn't enter,it shouldn't have stuck.If you put a battery in it,and tried to turn it over the starter drive can lock up on the flywheel.You will swear the engine is locked.I ask because it sounds like you haven't got the head off yet,and if it isn't off how could you tell they are stuck?I see this quite a lot where folks have an old car or tractor sitting for years.They first put a charger on it,with this wet dream that the battery might come to life.Then they try to turn it over.The old battery and charger put enough juice through it to just kick in the drive,and there it sits,locked up.I just looked at a Farmall H that had a locked up engine after sitting all winter.They towed it.They put crowbars on the crank trying to free it.They decided to have me do an in-chassis overhaul on it.I told them to hold up,and I went out to look at it.I unbolted the starter,hit it a couple of times with a hammer and heard a clunk as the bendix retracted.I bolted it back up and spun the crank by hand.It must have shot a half gallon of mystery oil out of the plug holes and all over their garage wall.They had charged the battery overnight and hit the starter,but there wasn't enough juice to do any more than lock it in.
Click to expand...

What Mr True said is what you need to check first.
If you oiled the cyliders I doubt the pistons are stuck. If anything, I would guess one or more valves are stuck closed. We freed one up that had been setting over 50 years and it was stuck at the valves. Ran good too after getting it broken loose.
 
Drain the oil. If a bunch of water or anti-freeze mix comes-out first, then it has had coolant leakage internally.

Going from my very recent and on-going experience with a 1950 Studebaker truck that was "backed into the barn and parked" 30 years ago, if it is stuck that tight, you'd be better off disassembling the engine, and seeing exactly what is stuck, and why, before you incur a lot of collateral ( and expensive) damage.

In the case of my Stude, # 4 piston was stuck in the cylinder due to corrosion ( even after soaking 4 months with Marvel Mystery Oil), and if I had tried to break it loose by towing, I would have probably bent the rod and/or broken the piston. In any event, the engine would not have run worth a damn, and I would have wound-up tearing it down anyway.

Good luck !

SC Frank
 
Glen,
Vermin's head was stuck beyond belief, 3 studs completely "WELDED" TO THE HEAD with rust, including one of the loooong studs!!
Bought a cheap oriental meat cleaver, about 1/8" thick & tapering to a thin knife sharp edge. With a cut off wheel, sliced it into 4 wedges. Drove them into the head gasket packing at each corner, being careful NOT to hit a valve. Drove them in, then doubled them up at 2 opposing corners & drove them in again. Didn't even leave not even 1 scratch on the head or block.
DON"T ever get ROUGH with pry bars, etc, you can take a CHUNK out of the block easily!!! Bill W.
 
Oh boy!!!! I don't think this stuff is supposed to be there! I'm ashamed to even show this to you guys. Here goes though, well maybe not. How do you post pictures here?
Glen
 
Frank brought up some good points. You might want to loosen the oil drain plug and let out a few drops of oil, and see if any coolant comes out first. If the coolant was drained all during storage, then don't worry about this.

Don't force anything.
Wiscosin air cooled V4's are famous for stuck valves after setting over winter. This happened to a farmer I knew every single year. Forcing the engine to turn with a stuck valve snapped his camshaft.:eek:

Forcing the Model A engine with stuck valves might strip the cam gear.
 
Try this
view.sfly
 
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