Can't remove fly wheel without removing engine? 59A
- Thread starter Old Henry
- Start date
JM 35 Sedan
Well-known member
Exactly!!
Bolts
Well-known member
I agree with Marv. Originaly i think the pressure plate was the problem. Notice how about 1/4 of it looks new and the rest has the blue spots.
Notice the black marks on about 270 degrees of the pressure plate. I think this indicates out of parallel with the flywheel mounting feet. The pressure plate is cocked with respect to the flywheel surface. Other words this is probably the cause of your original clutch chatter after the last clutch job.
Notice the black marks on about 270 degrees of the pressure plate. I think this indicates out of parallel with the flywheel mounting feet. The pressure plate is cocked with respect to the flywheel surface. Other words this is probably the cause of your original clutch chatter after the last clutch job.
Here's the pressure plate:
Clutch disc one side
Clutch disc other side:
See anything alarming? I don't even know what to look for. All of this was new last June, 13,000 miles ago.
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Old Henry
Well-known member
Unfortunately, I spent last evening trying to get the pan off under the car. No way. I removed all of the bolts and expected it to drop down. No way. It was glued on with some kind of sealant. I pounded a screw driver in as many places as I could and tried to pry it off but it didn't budge. So, I've got to remove the engine, put it on the work bench, and chisel that oil pan off to get the flywheel out to resurface.
I think the counter weights need to be down at the front. It's just the opposite of what one would think. You would think they need to be up out of the way but they need to be down. The front of the engine needs to go up about 1 3/4" and it will fall down and hit you in the head if your not careful. G.M.
Mart
Well-known member
I keep looking at the pressure plate and i am beginning to agree that it is probably the cause of the problem. It may be something as simple as an uneven release finger adjustment. You can see that the heat spotted area has been doing all the work, the untouched area would only have come into contact once there is no remaining slippage.
Unfortunately, the one side of the pressure plate doing all the work would also force that side of the flywheel to also do all the work. As we can't see photo's of the flywheel, it is difficult to say whether it is heat spotted badly enough for it to really require changing.
Pulling the motor and removing the oil pan just to have the flywheel skimmed is a lot of work if it is not really necessary.
I have a hunch that the clutch disc could be reused, it has not been damaged by the problems and looks in good condition. The pressure plate is probably best replaced, the most important thing, though, is that the replacement is set up correctly. The release bearing should contact and press on the release fingers at the same time.
If the flywheel really is bad then it should be resurfaced, but if only very superficial discolouration then it is probably ok and will recover. Like I say, no pics so hard to judge.
I'd guess that with a new pressure plate and a new UJ, everything refitted correctly with a new rear mount, (front too if necessary), then all will be fine.
Mart.
Unfortunately, the one side of the pressure plate doing all the work would also force that side of the flywheel to also do all the work. As we can't see photo's of the flywheel, it is difficult to say whether it is heat spotted badly enough for it to really require changing.
Pulling the motor and removing the oil pan just to have the flywheel skimmed is a lot of work if it is not really necessary.
I have a hunch that the clutch disc could be reused, it has not been damaged by the problems and looks in good condition. The pressure plate is probably best replaced, the most important thing, though, is that the replacement is set up correctly. The release bearing should contact and press on the release fingers at the same time.
If the flywheel really is bad then it should be resurfaced, but if only very superficial discolouration then it is probably ok and will recover. Like I say, no pics so hard to judge.
I'd guess that with a new pressure plate and a new UJ, everything refitted correctly with a new rear mount, (front too if necessary), then all will be fine.
Mart.
Old Henry
Well-known member
Mart, I do appreciate your continued analysis and support.
I would show the flywheel but right now it's loose in the back of the motor with the ****** case bolted just to the top of the motor and sitting on the ****** mount to hold the motor up while I tried to get the oil pan off. But, the fly wheel really looks as bad as the pressure plate if not worse. It has obvious heat cracks all over the surface along with those dark spots like the pressure plate has. It also has clear signs of uneven pressure in that the wear pattern isn't even on some of the areas that were newly resurfaced last July. One thing that I'm thinking may have really contributed to the problem is an extremely worn out release (throw-out) bearing that most likely did not push on all of the fingers evenly and caused a lot of the problem.
I have now received all of my parts from VanPelt including a complete new clutch pressure plate mechanism with whole different looking fingers, a new grey clutch disc, and new release (throw-out) bearing. If I hadn't spent $150.00 on all of that I probably would not bother to remove the engine to get the fly wheel out to resurface.
Thanks again for your help.
VanPelt new clutch:
VanPelt new pressure plate:
VanPelt new clutch disc:
I would show the flywheel but right now it's loose in the back of the motor with the ****** case bolted just to the top of the motor and sitting on the ****** mount to hold the motor up while I tried to get the oil pan off. But, the fly wheel really looks as bad as the pressure plate if not worse. It has obvious heat cracks all over the surface along with those dark spots like the pressure plate has. It also has clear signs of uneven pressure in that the wear pattern isn't even on some of the areas that were newly resurfaced last July. One thing that I'm thinking may have really contributed to the problem is an extremely worn out release (throw-out) bearing that most likely did not push on all of the fingers evenly and caused a lot of the problem.
I have now received all of my parts from VanPelt including a complete new clutch pressure plate mechanism with whole different looking fingers, a new grey clutch disc, and new release (throw-out) bearing. If I hadn't spent $150.00 on all of that I probably would not bother to remove the engine to get the fly wheel out to resurface.
Thanks again for your help.
VanPelt new clutch:
VanPelt new pressure plate:
VanPelt new clutch disc:
Old Henry
Well-known member
Don't know. Call VanPelt.
Old Henry
Well-known member
That's the bad thing about wanting to drive more than repair - I can not continue driving without occasionally stopping to repair. Whereas, on the other hand, a person that loves to work and tinker on their car more than drive it can pretty much just do what they want to do all the time without ever having to do what they don't like doing (driving).
Good thing I gave up long ago thinking that life is fair.
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Henry, this is not an indictment on anything you have said about your particular clutch assembly, just some of my own observations. Repeatedly FB has had threads that have mentioned adjusting the finger height on a clutch, and in fact Ford literature discusses this. Any pressure plate that was built properly will have no need for that. Period.
Look at the new PP from Van Pelt, those fingers are forgings and there is no means of adjustment. The three yokes under the clutch cover hold the fingers in place and also serve as the fulcrum point. A quality stamping for the clutch cover (the sheet metal part) and accurate machining of the yokes eliminates the need for adjustment. The Van Pelt PP would either need a yoke to be shimmed, or material milled from a yoke to adjust finger height. Either requires disassembly of the PP so clearly that is not an option available to the typical hobbiest. Quality OEM or aftermarket clutch manufacturers have inspected their product and finger height is factory set. If they do include what appear to be adjustment screws that is not their intent. Those are hardened to serve as wear pads for the fingers and again, on a quality PP they should never need adjustment. Fasten a new PP down in a criss-cross pattern, don't tighten two adjacent bolts down and proceed to the next two, you might bend the clutch cover and affect the finger height.
Mac VP builds transmissions and obviously knows them inside and out, along with understanding the need for a quality and factory inspected clutch assembly. I would add Fort Wayne Clutch in Indiana and Surge Friction in South Holland, IL in that grouping too.
Look at the new PP from Van Pelt, those fingers are forgings and there is no means of adjustment. The three yokes under the clutch cover hold the fingers in place and also serve as the fulcrum point. A quality stamping for the clutch cover (the sheet metal part) and accurate machining of the yokes eliminates the need for adjustment. The Van Pelt PP would either need a yoke to be shimmed, or material milled from a yoke to adjust finger height. Either requires disassembly of the PP so clearly that is not an option available to the typical hobbiest. Quality OEM or aftermarket clutch manufacturers have inspected their product and finger height is factory set. If they do include what appear to be adjustment screws that is not their intent. Those are hardened to serve as wear pads for the fingers and again, on a quality PP they should never need adjustment. Fasten a new PP down in a criss-cross pattern, don't tighten two adjacent bolts down and proceed to the next two, you might bend the clutch cover and affect the finger height.
Mac VP builds transmissions and obviously knows them inside and out, along with understanding the need for a quality and factory inspected clutch assembly. I would add Fort Wayne Clutch in Indiana and Surge Friction in South Holland, IL in that grouping too.
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Old Henry
Well-known member
Fordors, I'm not sure I understand what advice you are giving. Are you saying to send back VanPelt's clutch because the fingers are not adjustable? Or, that it must be a good clutch that was made right without the need for adjustment? Or, be sure someone grinds down those finger to adjust them?
I would trust it as a quality piece. I feel any PP in need of finger adjustment does not belong behind any engine I build. If they didn't get the finger height correct what else might be wrong with that clutch? Naturally others may disagree, but that's what makes the world go around.
