Brake disassembly, etc.
- Thread starter Trapdoor2
- Start date
Trapdoor2
Senior Member
A week later...
Test drive this morning!
#1 The engine runs like crap. The vacuum leak has gotten worse as she's been sitting idle. Fortunately, I bought all new gaskets, etc. Just another fun task!
#2 Brakes work! At 15mph, and a hard stomp, she pulls just a bit to the left. I think the right-rear is the culprit as it had a smidge less drag during adjustment that the rest.
#3 I can't tell much difference in the braking from the stamped rims/woven liners. Of course, it's been a minute since I drove it last and the new (molded) liners will take a few miles before they're fully broken in. I may also have the adjustments on the looser side as I can still move all 4 with the brake tool in position 4 (end of the tool). The cotter pins are still just barely bent, so I could easily re-adjust everything.
#4 The adjustment process, other than all the up and down exercise, is a doddle. I didn't have the Coupe up high enough to use my creeper but my shop floor is smooth epoxy. I had to make up a headrest out of a pile of shop towels with a zip tie around them. I also had one clevis (passenger front) that was worn enough to need the oversize pin...and I had already bought the correct size reamer from McMaster Carr.
#5 Both anti-rattle springs for the rear service brakes are loose, that is, they don't have enough spring to do the job. I will probably pull them and see if I can add some bend to them...or replace if necessary. The Parking brake AR springs are fine. The bolts look like they've not been moved since '31, I'll order new regardless.
#6 Nice to be out on the road again!
Test drive this morning!
#1 The engine runs like crap. The vacuum leak has gotten worse as she's been sitting idle. Fortunately, I bought all new gaskets, etc. Just another fun task!
#2 Brakes work! At 15mph, and a hard stomp, she pulls just a bit to the left. I think the right-rear is the culprit as it had a smidge less drag during adjustment that the rest.
#3 I can't tell much difference in the braking from the stamped rims/woven liners. Of course, it's been a minute since I drove it last and the new (molded) liners will take a few miles before they're fully broken in. I may also have the adjustments on the looser side as I can still move all 4 with the brake tool in position 4 (end of the tool). The cotter pins are still just barely bent, so I could easily re-adjust everything.
#4 The adjustment process, other than all the up and down exercise, is a doddle. I didn't have the Coupe up high enough to use my creeper but my shop floor is smooth epoxy. I had to make up a headrest out of a pile of shop towels with a zip tie around them. I also had one clevis (passenger front) that was worn enough to need the oversize pin...and I had already bought the correct size reamer from McMaster Carr.
#5 Both anti-rattle springs for the rear service brakes are loose, that is, they don't have enough spring to do the job. I will probably pull them and see if I can add some bend to them...or replace if necessary. The Parking brake AR springs are fine. The bolts look like they've not been moved since '31, I'll order new regardless.
#6 Nice to be out on the road again!
Trapdoor2
Senior Member
Gee, that's too easy, Paul. Can't I do it the hard way?
Since we're guys, that is to be expected, isn't it??
David in San Antonio
Well-known member
The proper way requires you to buy a tool you’ll only use once.
Trapdoor2
Senior Member
That is the secret to any worthwhile hobby!
Trapdoor2
Senior Member
It is encoded in my DNA.
1. Instructions are for wimps.
2. Easy requires blood sacrifice.
Jim/GA
Well-known member
That's a very good question and one I have put a lot of work and thought into.
First of all, when the brakes are not being applied, you don't want brake linings dragging. So you have to back off some just to get to that point.
And, I have discovered from trial and error, it actually helps you get better braking if the "top" ends of the shoes (back ends, in the case of the rear brakes) start out just a bit further away from the drum face surface than they would be simply "not dragging". It has to do with the geometry of the shoes and the actuators (wedge in front, cam in back) at each shoe.
If you back off too many clicks beyond 3 to 5 clicks, then the braking effectiveness starts to go down again, because that end of the shoes is now too far from the drum face.
It's a balance, between adjusting the clicker end of the shoe and the brake rod clevis end. If you take your time doing it, you can get some really screaming good braking on these cars.
And once the brake rod clevis end is correct, you should do all further adjustments at the clicker end to make up for normal wear.
But, having said that, I usually repeat the brake adjustment procedure after 50 to 100 miles of driving, after the shoes have seated nicely and worn in a touch (any high spots wear down). I'm not opposed to small changes to the clevis on the brake rod at that point, if it improves braking or to balance out pulling on a hard brake application.
After that, adjust with the screw clicker only.
Trapdoor2
Senior Member
The "Red Book" tells you to make just basic adjustments with the clevis ends and all further balancing is done with the "clicker" (adjusting wedge). Our MAFCA TD's (Paul and Jim) prefer making all adjustments with the clevis ends and only use the wedge for wear once all the adjustments are done. Fine tuning with the clevis ends makes sense to me.
Because there are two methods of making essentially the same adjustment, it would be interesting (to me, at least) to know the equivalencies, that is, 1 wedge click = how many clevis turns? IOW, which is the "fine" and which is the "coarse" adjustment?
Both adjustments have limits, of course, and the wedges are much easier to reach, no cotter pins, etc. Some methods recommend setting the length of the brake rods to their exact listed length as a first step...and I can see that if I were starting from scratch (new rods, new bellcranks, major surgery, etc. My front clevises were almost at their short limits before I started the process. The front crank arms were vertical, not 15 degrees forward.
I added "pill" shims to both front brake rods, which resulted in getting the proper 15 deg. angle. After I completed the front brake assembly (but before adjustment), I ordered a set of the basic floaters (not the "Ted" system) and installed them. The clevis ends are now closer to the middle of their range.
I've got to fix my vacuum leak before I do any further road testing.
Because there are two methods of making essentially the same adjustment, it would be interesting (to me, at least) to know the equivalencies, that is, 1 wedge click = how many clevis turns? IOW, which is the "fine" and which is the "coarse" adjustment?
Both adjustments have limits, of course, and the wedges are much easier to reach, no cotter pins, etc. Some methods recommend setting the length of the brake rods to their exact listed length as a first step...and I can see that if I were starting from scratch (new rods, new bellcranks, major surgery, etc. My front clevises were almost at their short limits before I started the process. The front crank arms were vertical, not 15 degrees forward.
I added "pill" shims to both front brake rods, which resulted in getting the proper 15 deg. angle. After I completed the front brake assembly (but before adjustment), I ordered a set of the basic floaters (not the "Ted" system) and installed them. The clevis ends are now closer to the middle of their range.
I've got to fix my vacuum leak before I do any further road testing.
Jim/GA
Well-known member
I'm not going to speak for Paul, but I never said I prefer making all adjustments with the clevis ends.
It is an iterative process that requires balance between the two adjustment points at each wheel when FIRST setting up new brakes. Using the adjuster first until the shoes just begin to drag and then backing off 3 (or sometimes more) clicks is just the starting adjustment there.
Then adjust the clevis end. When doing that, you may find you need to turn the adjustment clicker a bit in or out to get the best braking at a wheel. So you go back and forth with more and less adjustment at the adjuster and at the clevis until you narrow in on it.
The clevis turn adjustment is finer, in my experience, than the clicker adjustment screw. A 1/2 turn of the clevis is hardly any change at the shoes. I use that to fine-tune (if 1 click at the adjuster screw is too much, but you want a touch more braking -- so 1/2 turn of the clevis).
You can START with the brake rods at the official Ford brake rod length, just to get them in the car, but beyond that, you need to set the brake rod lengths to the car. First take out all slack, then go shorter from there as required (after getting the adjuster screw right).
This is one reason mechanical brakes have a bad reputation. Not due to fault of the brake system, but due to lack of understanding by the mechanic trying to adjust them, especially when starting out will all new parts on all wheels, where you want to set them up from scratch for maximum braking.
I have NEVER said to make ALL brake adjustments with the clevises. Is it shocking how many times I have been mis-quoted on brake adjusting.
In the video, I very clearly state (especially with brand new brakes) that one must first disconnect the brake rods, and start by adjusting the "ckickers" with the rods DISCONNECTED!
I said to spin each wheel and adjust the "clicker" until the brake just barely starts to rub the drum. Then back off a few (OK, let's say 3) clicks. Do exactly the same for the other 3 wheels. Assuming all of them are adjusted the same (3 clicks off from rubbing), and all 4 wheels spin freely with no brake tension on the arms, then proceed to connect the brake rods and adjust for equal brake drag with the pedal in a fixed position, using the brake adjuster tool I show that goes between the brake pedal and the seat.
Then, and ONLY then would you test drive the car and see if it pulls left or right under braking. If so, tighten the front brake clevis on the wheel opposite the direction it pulls (Example- if it pulls right, adjust the left clevis) one HALF of a turn, and test drive again.
Please, PLEASE do not misquote me. Thank you!
Thank you to Jim Cannon also- Excellent point about starting with the brake rods at Ford recommended lengths. Good place to start. However, before you get misquoted also, let me say this: The people who claim that the rods should never be adjusted from Ford factory lengths are incorrect. The ONLY way those adjustments are valid is if the car is still factory new, with zero miles. In that case, I could agree with that.
In the video, I very clearly state (especially with brand new brakes) that one must first disconnect the brake rods, and start by adjusting the "ckickers" with the rods DISCONNECTED!
I said to spin each wheel and adjust the "clicker" until the brake just barely starts to rub the drum. Then back off a few (OK, let's say 3) clicks. Do exactly the same for the other 3 wheels. Assuming all of them are adjusted the same (3 clicks off from rubbing), and all 4 wheels spin freely with no brake tension on the arms, then proceed to connect the brake rods and adjust for equal brake drag with the pedal in a fixed position, using the brake adjuster tool I show that goes between the brake pedal and the seat.
Then, and ONLY then would you test drive the car and see if it pulls left or right under braking. If so, tighten the front brake clevis on the wheel opposite the direction it pulls (Example- if it pulls right, adjust the left clevis) one HALF of a turn, and test drive again.
Please, PLEASE do not misquote me. Thank you!
Thank you to Jim Cannon also- Excellent point about starting with the brake rods at Ford recommended lengths. Good place to start. However, before you get misquoted also, let me say this: The people who claim that the rods should never be adjusted from Ford factory lengths are incorrect. The ONLY way those adjustments are valid is if the car is still factory new, with zero miles. In that case, I could agree with that.
Paul, I watched your brake video, very well done.
But I always thought that you were a manly man. I know when you walk around the garage, you like to do that barefoot. But in the video, when you pushed the left lining in place on the bottom, you had a shoe on.
Just letting you know that when I do that maneuver, I do that BAREFOOT, without a shirt, while smoking a cigar!
But I always thought that you were a manly man. I know when you walk around the garage, you like to do that barefoot. But in the video, when you pushed the left lining in place on the bottom, you had a shoe on.
Just letting you know that when I do that maneuver, I do that BAREFOOT, without a shirt, while smoking a cigar!
Trapdoor2
Senior Member
Well, in true internet fashion, you've both chosen to react to a single word rather than actually reading and comprehending my post. You overreact as if there were not 30-something previous posts in this thread, and that I somehow suddenly decided you were evil and probably Martian infiltrators. I did not directly quote either of you, I used your names because you were an important part of the conversation. All I did was compress a complex process into conversational language, so it didn't go TL;DR.
Sheesh.
Sheesh.