Brake disassembly, etc.

Trapdoor2

Trapdoor2

Senior Member
Like I told Miz Diane, these are the first drum brakes I've done since I was a teenager before I converted my VW to discs. I'm replacing the stamped drums with cast-iron. This is the start of that process.

I've started with the passenger side front. Tomorrow I'll do the driver's side front. It may be a few days before I receive the rear hub puller from Mitchell.

Of course, it is a pretty easy process. The only real problem was getting my fat old behind up off the floor again afterwards. I'm gonna need a Tylenol IV...:D

With the tires off the floor, shake testing the kingpins, etc. revealed no issues. I video'd the joints while I tried to rattle everything (carefully, Harbor Fright jackstands, y'know). If there was any movement, it was tiny. Wiping down the shackles...well, I knew they were sagging anyway. They're about 3/8" from the axle. Can't get my finger under the spring. That's a job for another time.

I was delighted to find that this brake assembly was in excellent shape. The steel drum mic'd 0.130...much better than I expected. The bearings were in need of packing. They weren't dry but they were getting "parched". The brake shoes have about 0.080" above the rivets and they're pretty solid.

The only thing that looks worn is the track on the backing plate. I have a neighbor who has offered welding services, so once I get them all off, I'll take them over and get the tracks filled. Filing them flat, etc. should be a piece of cake.

The brake rod and bushings are solid and smooth. No need to replace them. Same for the upper and lower wedges and rollers. I've ordered a new set of springs but the old ones are only a little rusty. I did have to hit Harbor Fright up for a $15 set of brake-spring pliers.

I did pull the brake rod clevis and measured the holes and clevis pins. They're worn, so I ordered a set of oversize pins (11/32"). I'll drill out the clevises all around to match.

The 4 backing plate bolts were miserable to get at. I kept kicking myself for not going ahead with a lift for the shop. It would have kept me off the floor. I noticed that the Les Andrew's book has the wrong size listed for the Wedge bolt (it's 3/4", not 5/8"). Maybe that's year specific...

Other than the track, everything else looks really good. It should be an easy rebuild. Much easier to clean everything up once the backing plate is off too.

So, I'm "cautiously optimistic" for the other three corners. I'm still of the opinion that this Coupe was restored 20+ yrs ago and then driven sparingly. I have no history other than the previous owner only put ~50mi on it in his year of ownership. I'm gonna try to wear it out!
 
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I have seen people replace the steel rear drum with cast iron ones without thinking whether that was a good idea. I know general opinion is that it be done but WHY?
Henry had the brake bias heavily weighted towards the rear wheels - IMO, a throwback to the days of brakes on the rear only. With original brakes, the back wheels will lock up waaay before much happens at the front.
When I came to improve the brakes, I bought cast drums for the front and installed them with the floating wedge adaption available from the vendors. Even then, I found that the back wheels locked but the front didn't go close. Sure, I could stop in a shorter distance but I figured I still needed to shift the bias even more towards the front. I investigated putting Flat Head Ted's kit in the front only but the "half kits" had been taken off the market. I tried replacing the front actuating levers with a pair of the longer ones from the back brakes. Adjusting was a nightmare. BTW, during a workshop on brakes our club ran, we used an accelerometer to see who had the best brakes. Mine were - with STEEL rear drums. I stopped in under 19 feet from 20 mph. Since then, I now run 5.25X21 tyres on the back for their better grip so that I get max benefit from the strong rear brakes.
I think I have it just about right now by removing the Model A brakes and using '32 - '34 front brakes with all new components but still using the original steel drums aft.
The front/rear balance is now what we expect from cars (with their decades of further development) and I drive knowing I have brakes no one (in a Model A) can match. IMO, the only other thing that might match what I now have is a properly done hydraulic conversion. I didn't want to go down that road.
That is my experience and I know it works. The rest is up to you.
 
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I appreciate your experience!

Yah, my Dad would have had me install "juice" brakes. I believe his '29 Roadster Pickup had them (I was too young to notice). Of course, it had a Buick V8 in it (among other things). If this were a Hotrod, I would do the same. I loved the look of the later V8-spoke wheels on it.

The physics of braking on a vehicle with a high-forward center of mass and small contact patch geometry are going to unweight the rears considerably under hard braking. It shouldn't be surprising that the rears skid first. Riding a bicycle will tell you that.

In my first few minutes of driving, back in November, I tested the brakes on the asphalt in front of my house. I was able to leave 4 skid marks...and straight ahead. I'm sure the rears let go first but the marks were close enough together that I was happy.

Then, I experienced brake fade on my trip in traffic the other day...which drove me to start working on the brakes. The more I dig, the more I realize that this system has many points of sloppiness from age/wear...but design too. Even though the steels on it are well within thickness limits, they're a point of liability I can mitigate, so, cast on all 4 for me. It is antique tech. I'll repair/replace/adjust it to its optimum and I'll drive and maintain it with that in mind.

As usual, my opinions are: "Subject to change without notice". Who knows what I'll find in this journey? :D
 
Having just recently completed a full brake job including rebuild backing plates last month ( here is proof- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csQ2kB3Hhlg ), this is still fresh in my mind.

As you saw, I set them up with equal bias all the way around. And you can see how well the car stops from both an inside car perspective, and when watching from outside the car. We were careful to not leave skid marks, because it isn't my car. But if we wanted to lock up all 4, it would be effortless.

I have heard people say that the Model As left the factory with more bias to rear brakes, and some believe more to the fronts. I am not of that opinion. I have seen many factory documents and films showing how the cars were briefly "tested" between the assembly line and the parking lot holding area prior to shipping. Nothing indicates anything to support either theory. If any precision brake adjustments were made prior to sale, I suspect it was the dealers who did that.

As for why go to cast iron brake drums... That has more to do with long downhill "riding" of the brakes than panic stops. The cast iron drums are much less likely to experience "brake fade". I say that not as a parrot of web forum opinions, but from personal experiments 15+ years ago.

Also, the factory brakes on the rear do have what one might call "floaters" already.
 
I'm about to watch your video for the 2nd time, Paul. I watched when it came out but now that I've gotten the front brakes apart, I have a better understanding of all the parts.

Randy Gross suggested I use Mike's A Ford-able parts, since they're closer (Georgia) to me and I'd save a good bit on shipping...and they use Randy's stuff anyway. I talked to them this morning, no problem doing whatever level of rebuild I want. I'm gonna send my backplates for track refurb and get a set of drums. I probably won't need a full-kit rebuild but I will get the brake shoes relined and arced. Getting the rears apart will tell the full tale.

I found it interesting that they (Mike's) don't recommend (or sell) the bonded brake linings as Randy does. OTOH, I don't think it will matter to me all that much.
 
I know Erich at Mike's A-Fordable very well. I agree, they are a good source for you. I'd still go with the bonded shoes. I have played with both, and I am happier with the bonded (not canvas) ones. WAY happier.
 
P.S. said:
I know Erich at Mike's A-Fordable very well. I agree, they are a good source for you. I'd still go with the bonded shoes. I have played with both, and I am happier with the bonded (not canvas) ones. WAY happier.
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I agree, I like the Molded/Bonded Brake Shoes over the Woven Brakes Shoes.
 
OK. Where to get bonded brakes? I have installed liners before but that was 50 yrs ago. Finding somebody to arc them...I'll have to ask around.

I suppose I could make an arcing fixture that would fit my belt sander. I have plans for one that radius guitar fretboards. Same concept.
 
updraught said:
Buy the shoes from Randy. They are light, so won't cost much to ship.
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Yes. After I get the rears off and cleaned up, I'm going to call him and see if he can arc them without having the drums (they'll still be his drums, just gotten from Mike's). I guess it depends on the original tolerance used on the drums vs tolerances required on the shoes.

Shipping is expensive (as I'm sure you well know). I can save over $200 just working thru Mike's (due to shorter distance).

Of course, that's just dinner out a couple of times...;)
 
Time to remove the rear brakes...about as greasy, messy job as I can remember ever having.

I got the right rear off...I would advise everyone to take on their most difficult challenges today, Mr. Murphy (or Mr. Sod, depending on where you live) is clearly over here supervising my every move. :rolleyes: Every dropped item has rolled under the center of the car. Thankfully, I have a long-reach grabber tool handy.

Here's just one: Pic shows backing plate to housing bolts. Which one was in the upper position, hiding behind the brake arms...and the only one needing a backup wrench on it to keep it from turning?

I finally found a 3/4" socket that had just a smidge smaller chamfer on the inside, so that it would grip...barely. I was just about to grind one flat. Sheesh! :rolleyes:

Yup, new ones are on order from Snyder's.
 

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I think Murphy has taken up residence in all of our workshops - he has in mine!
Murphy's summary of the world in a workshop: Mother Nature and Lady Luck are *******!
 
I think I speak for myself and others as well if I had a nickel for every time Murphy's law intervened on my projects I would have enough money to purchase another model A!!!
 
Fullraceflathead said:
I think I speak for myself and others as well if I had a nickel for every time Murphy's law intervened on my projects I would have enough money to purchase another model A!!!
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Oh, for sure! I still have to find the nut & washer I dropped off the rumble seat handrail. It went deep!
 
L/H brake assy. came off without complaint. It helps to have had a bit of experience with the R/H one. Mr. Murphy seems to be uninterested today...so far! :D
 
Finally got the drums and backing plates shipped off to Mike's. $140 for 3 boxes...UPS. Hopefully I'll get them back in a couple weeks. Sure will be happy to get back on the road again!
 
Brakes are back from Mike's! Everything looks shiny and new.

Looks like I'll be busy for a while!
 

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