Bob Drake - why overseas?

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Thanks Bob for explaining this to us. As I have said before, Bob Drake reproductions is a first class act and contributes to keeping these old Fords alive.
I have other "non Ford" cars, and let me tell you, what few parts that are available are astromical in price.A new distributor cap for my 1927 Rolls Royce cost about 300.00 and it fit poorly (made in Dayton, Ohio, USA none the less), the rotor was another 150.00 and required some "fitting". Other parts need to be found as originals, where the sellers know what they have and know you need it and know you can't find it on Ford Barn, Ebay, or anywhere else! Or they need to be made at a machine shop that has no problem charging twenty hours of labor at 75/hr to make some small widget and it takes them two months.
So guys, be thankful that there are vendors and manufacturers such as Drake to supply us with reasonably priced parts.
As a side note, my 2008 F150 wouldn't start this AM. It has 39K miles on it (of course the warranty ended at 36K). I had to get it towed to the local Ford dealership and was just informed that some electrical sensor widget that fires the fuel injection is shot and will cost about 900.00 to fix and they won't have the part until Monday (of course, I am out of town with it, they never break at home!). So much for OE Genuine Ford parts!!!!!
 
No one can right fully point a finger at a single distributor, developer manufacturer and say that it is their fault for situation XYZ. Nor can or should anyone blame Bob for following the examples of the rest of the school in his sourcing of parts from other points of origin. It would be nice to see an effort to show that certain parts or items are built by people who enjoy a quality of life similar to our own. The sad fact is that as soon as the labor laws develop and the wages start to rise the next nation in line will replace the current one. The parts will have a different sticker on the box, the quality will need to be re adjusted and the whole sad story will replay itself. If there is a Bob Jr jr, he will be answering questions about the parts made in some other poor victimized economy. It is fully understood that you have to stay with the school or be eaten. What is not fully understood is that at some point in time the consumers who actually buy this product will be so devastated by the consequences of their own frugalness that the entire concept will implode. The majority of people who own or restore these cars are middle, upper middle class men who have been struck severely by this policy and continue to be hurt by it. It is only a matter of time before so many incomes disappear that the economics of reproducing these parts becomes impractical. Unemployed people do not buy parts for toy cars, neither do the poor. I'm sure most of the guys who work in the shop have a Ford car they play with, lay them off, 20 of them, 20 fewer customers. The guy with the chrome shop has a few guys with toys, gone, the guy at the foundry had a few guys with toys, gone, the box company had a club, gone. The man making the part today lives in a room that he works hard for all day, he is happy, he has food and running water, his child is healthy. He has a 15" television, and a 60 cc moped. He is happy. He has not a clue what he would do with a 1939 Ford car, can he plow with it, maybe use it to start a small moving business. Will he ever buy a set of mirrors for his 39 Sedan, not likely. You may think that you are saving a lot of money, you are not, you may think that all will be fine, it will not. We are a people who take care of our poor, feed our unemployed. We will feed these people with the dollars that we think we saved in the form of taxes, interest and loans. In the end the cost of something that seems less and a better value will cost us a lot more if not everything. You are all intelligent people, you all see the same thing, everyones doing it. Everyone needs to stop, think and then react. I am sorry that my post sounds policy oriented, it is hard to address the OP without some speak in this direction.
 
Kentf1003 said:
What was your quote? "Times change and you HAVE to change with the times." Sounds like, "Follow the other companies."

You are a leader in your industry. Continue to find ways to bring the trade back home. Real Americans still want to buy American.
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Ditto on this thought as well.
 
Bob Drake Repro said:
To clear up some misconceptions about some previous posts made here regarding our parts being made overseas. Not “all” of my parts are made in China, in fact, very few are. Yes, we have a number of parts manufactured in Taiwan by original equipment manufacturer vendors. We still have a large presence in USA manufacturing as well (mostly in the Los Angeles to Seattle corridor). We even had our own in house mold shop for years, with 8 qualified mold makers. Well, times change and you have to change with the times. We personally don’t like importing any more than a lot of you. We continue to support USA manufacturing companies and source our products with them whenever it makes good business sense.

When I first started in 1971 it was very easy to find USA vendors that could run our products in the kinds of small quantities that we needed and with very good quality. Many of these vendors are still great friends today. In the past few years, I have seen a major downturn in American manufacturing. We personally have lost 4 die casters, numerous rubber companies, stamping companies, chrome shops (you all know how hard it is to find a good chrome shop)… many of these companies just shut down. We were forced to look elsewhere or give it up ourselves.

We continue to do a lot of the hands on manufacturing and assembly that we always have done, we still have control over the quality and design of our parts. We have a great team at our 3 facilities in Southern Oregon, in support positions like Research & Development, Engineering, Purchasing, Assembly, Sales, Art, etc.

As far as my running boards go, yeah, we had them made in China. Spent 3 years sourcing 7 vendors within a 100 mile radius to do the tooling, stamping, plating, rubber presses, box company, etc. Our in house, American engineer did all the CAD work and supervised the entire project. Another 2 years to have the tooling made, tested and production ran. I consider this one of our best accomplishments to date. We finished 5 different boards in just over 2 years. The cost to do this was more than most of you can imagine, I couldn’t estimate what the cost would be if these could even be made these in the USA. My guess is it would be ten-fold.

But it’s not only money, remember, these boards were done the same way as Henry Ford’s vulcanization method, by compressing rubber to the board under extreme pressure. I don’t even think these large presses needed for this project exist in the USA today, they are obsolete here. Our 1940 deluxe and standard grilles are another example. Huge zinc die cast machines are needed to produce these parts. Once again, these machines don’t exist here. Today’s grilles are made from plastic or composite material.

The specialized manufacturing processes that were done in the USA years ago have all but disappeared. The expertise has also, there’s not much trade curriculum being taught in the USA anymore. Ford used a wire “bead” in their fenders. The crimping to put this wire in place was done by a Magee machine. That machine isn’t even around anymore much less the guy that knows how to use it.

If any of you think this has anything to do with “greed”, think again. We re-invest a majority of profit into new products. We finished 200+ new products for the early Ford car and truck market last year. Showing our passion and commitment to “Keeping the Ford Spirit Alive”.

Bob
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Bob:

Part of your response may be making reference to my post regarding a conversation I heard between one of your employees and a customer regarding the ill fit of the '40 gas tank the customer purchased.

I fully understand you have a huge company with many employees and it doesn't seem like you are a "micro-manager". But maybe some training is in order for those folks how are representing you on the frontlines at car shows.

Really think about what I overheard: The customer told your employee about a problem. Your employee acknowledge the problem and told the customer you (meaning your company) were aware of the fit issue and weren't going to do anything about it until you ran out of stock.

I think I've read somewhere that A/M company have run statics that if only 10% of the folks who purchase a part complain, then companies let it go even though they know about a problem.

Regardless of you you work fit issues, that one comment made by one of your employees really put a dent into the memory of all the good you've done for the hobby for me.

Being someone who deals with the public on a daily basis, I'm fully aware that one mess can erase a lot of any prior good deeds you've done.

If you guys truly knew there was a fit problem with one of your products, I think you owe it your customers to do something about it. After all, I don't think it would too far of stretch for you to have received some type of credit from the supplier of the product.

In closing, I'm certain you struggle every day to make a decision that is going to make you, your employees and your customers happy.

Maybe I'm speaking for a small minority, but I for one would support any company that truly exhaust every avenue before shipping their manufactoring overseas.

If you would like to follow up with my reply, I can be reach by either PM or my e-mail tayers@cwcboe.org

I do sincerely thank you for your contributions to the hobby. My hope is that we all can meet somewhere in the middle and provide quality repo parts that are made in the USA and only have a small minority of those parts coming from offshore vendors instead of the current imbalance that we see today.

Sincerely,

Tim Ayers
 
It's tough to blame manufacturers for overseas partners. I give 'em credit for having the fortitude to continue in business, as it can't be easy these days.

But, how many of us strive for highest possible wages, while at the same time constantly look to get a bargain on everything we buy? Simply put, we can't have it both ways, something has to give. The 'made in China' issue is one result.

It's too bad that it's come to this, I don't like it any more than anyone else does. But back to my first statement.

Anymore, if a supplier provides a quality item at an affordable price, the 'country of origin' isn't much of an issue; but admittedly when I see a "Made in China" or - especially a "Made in VietNam" tag on anything, I walk away if it's not a 'must-have' item.

It's tough not to be taken in by the foreign-made products, including auto parts. I've bought a lot of them, and many have been very good quality items. And I will continue to do so. Thanks to those like BD who still can provide this service.

Times, they are a-changin'. Like it or not. Sad, so sad.
 
Thanks for being there for us Bob!! I know what it takes to manufacture parts. Just the R&D alone is very expensive. Yes I love to see made in USA on any thing I buy. I am always willing to pay more for those parts. But ten times more? Might be more than anyone of us can afford. JMHO
 
A pertinet fact to consider, the Chinese workers are subsidising your lifestyle. America borrows staggering amounts of money from the Chinese. Where does the Chinese gov't get this money? From the Chinese worker who saves (on average) half of their weekly wage.

The Chinese worker (whom some of you despise) is helping his country, and yours. America owes this ordinary man it's thanks. The fact that you will never be able to repay your ever increasing debt troubles you not. As long as your indulgent lifestyle is maintained at someone else expense you can sleep well at night.

The Chinese are helping the American gov't with it's many and varied subsidies to business and citizens. Remove these subsidies and then what? Real pain.

It is your patriotic duty to buy Chinese, only by supporting the Chinese economy can you continue to borrow their money to prop up your lifestyle.
 
First, thank you, Bob, for being there for generally really good quality parts, and for trying.

The overseas issue isn't just about China, it, sadly, has been with us for many years. I can vividly remember a television show at least 30 years ago (probably in black and white) that showed huge logs being loaded onto a Japanese freighter at a northwestern USA port. It seemed that is was cheaper to ship logs to Japan and have them made into plywood and then ship them back than it was to have the plywood manufactured in a US factory. I don't remember if it was a labor, taxation, regulation problem and it really does not matter. The fact is, the issue isn't something new. It's also not new that we are always complaining about it.
 
Fe26 said:
A pertinet fact to consider, the Chinese workers are subsidising your lifestyle. America borrows staggering amounts of money from the Chinese. Where does the Chinese gov't get this money? From the Chinese worker who saves (on average) half of their weekly wage.

The Chinese worker (whom some of you despise) is helping his country, and yours. America owes this ordinary man it's thanks. The fact that you will never be able to repay your ever increasing debt troubles you not. As long as your indulgent lifestyle is maintained at someone else expense you can sleep well at night.

The Chinese are helping the American gov't with it's many and varied subsidies to business and citizens. Remove these subsidies and then what? Real pain.

It is your patriotic duty to buy Chinese, only by supporting the Chinese economy can you continue to borrow their money to prop up your lifestyle.
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WHAT ?:confused:
 
Fe26 said:
A pertinet fact to consider, the Chinese workers are subsidising your lifestyle. America borrows staggering amounts of money from the Chinese. Where does the Chinese gov't get this money? From the Chinese worker who saves (on average) half of their weekly wage.

The Chinese worker (whom some of you despise) is helping his country, and yours. America owes this ordinary man it's thanks. The fact that you will never be able to repay your ever increasing debt troubles you not. As long as your indulgent lifestyle is maintained at someone else expense you can sleep well at night.

The Chinese are helping the American gov't with it's many and varied subsidies to business and citizens. Remove these subsidies and then what? Real pain.

It is your patriotic duty to buy Chinese, only by supporting the Chinese economy can you continue to borrow their money to prop up your lifestyle.
Click to expand...
We never had an immigration moratorium against them. Just sayin.:D
 
I would like to correct Mr. Drakes notion that the machinery for wire-beading of fenders does not exist in the USA - it does , and it is in Brookville, OH. Brookville Roadster is still using it to make the best reproduction Early Ford parts and bodies they can. I wonder if Mr. Drake has looked hard enough to find the equipment and talents in this country........Bob L
 
fordy_nine said:
I would like to correct Mr. Drakes notion that the machinery for wire-beading of fenders does not exist in the USA - it does , and it is in Brookville, OH. Brookville Roadster is still using it to make the best reproduction Early Ford parts and bodies they can. I wonder if Mr. Drake has looked hard enough to find the equipment and talents in this country........Bob L
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Well, maybe that's the only one and they're not likely offering BD the use of it.
 
I bought a Drake gas tank for my 37 when they very first came out. These early tanks were made wrong and would not fit without lifting off the body. I had to dent in the side of the tank to get it installed from underneath like the stock tank (I could take the stock tank in and out in a matter of minutes).

My old tank was full of chunks of sealer the previous owner misapplied and had other issues as well, so I was happy to have a new functional tank, but not so happy that I had to bang in the side of this new tank to install it like the original went in.

If Drake were to send me a new tank to replace this one that would be great, (HINT, HINT), but back then I could not get any resolution.

Other than my continued disappointment with this tank, I have been happy with the other Drake parts I have purchased for my 37 Tudor and 38 Coupe.
 
I give Bob credit for getting parts out of China that have decent quality & not going broke in the process.

I work for an OEM & MOST of the parts we get from Asia end up costing a ton of cash to get reworked for use in production. Spotty quality, poor Eng support, & unauthorized material substitutions are the norm. Cash is king there & they WILL do what ever they can to make an extra buck off of you.

BTW Bob- I'd gladly pay $100 each for Wheel Cylinders that are made in the USA (to Ford specs), so I don't have to run these sh*tty Chinese parts that have a 30-40% failure rate!!! Braking is kinda important to me & I've blown way too many in the last few years.
 
"Let China sleep, for when she wakes, she will shake the world." Napoleon Bonaparte.

But no like a kid with a stick, America (and the United Kindom) sent Gunboats poking up the Yangtze River. The purpose in this successful enterprise was to force China to open up the country for international trade. Of course the Chinese gov't and people didn't mind their expertise and trade goods being plundered by the west.

The penalty for a Chinese citizen selling or trading cultural and trade patents (for want of a better word) was death. Undaunted the British acquired one of the most closely guarded secrets; the recipe for Porcelain, the rest they say is history. We still refer to the dinnerware in the cupboard or on the shelf as 'China'. I wonder if the Chinese cringe when they hear that term used.

'Those who forget their history are doomed to repeat it'. Quote.

Which of our western governments has a one hundred year plan? Our politicical and social systems are designed for short term thinking and ad-hoc decisions based on what is before us short term, not what we may need or desire long term. By short term I mean anything up to fifty years in the future. In contrast, some Asian countries such as Singapore and China have a five hundred year plan. They also have long memories.

When a country has long term plans and strategies in place the collective memory will remember grave insults from the nineteen century as if they were almost recent history. Thus the Chinese gov't encourages the exploitation of the west by it's manufacturers. Very rarely is a company prosecuted for Trade Mark or Intellectual Property violations, and so the companies are free to exploit and profit from the wests desire to make/save a fast buck. Don't get me wrong, the Chinese also like a fast buck too, and the more western fast bucks the better. The Chinese people are encouraged to exploit the west, it is portrayed as their cultural duty to rectify the wrongs done to China in the past, and so often, great pride is taken by humble people in their determination to right the injustices of the past.

The Chinese have a different cultural attidude to business than do the citizens of most western countries. It is possible to do business on fair and equitable terms with many Chinese businesses, however in attempting to do so, the western business person must understand how the Chinese business brain works. Instead we get the clumsy oafish approach of 'Do it my way or the highway, and by the way, we want it at the cheapest possible price'. You get what you pay for. Sometimes they can produce quality goods, but a fair price must be paid. Sometimes they can't produce quality, but the finished product will be acceptable on price alone. Sometimes the cheap thing becomes the dear thing, and we are besotted with cheap. Even though the cheap thing is not fit for the use it was intended and is cheaply discarded, we still buy more. The average Chinese worker looks upon the waste of our hard earned money with derision, no wonder they think we're fat, lazy and stupid.

Well we may say, ah, but the gunboats were from old times long past, we have put all that behind us. Well we may have, but the Chinese didn't, they have been waiting and playing a long, disiplined and patient game, and they have woken up.

'May you live in interesting times' An old Chinese insult.

And we do. China is just starting to flex it's muscle, eg, the recent Climate Change talks in Copenhagen saw the Chinese gov't send a junior bureaucrat to talk to the President of the United States. With a not-so-subtle move here and there the Chinese and Indian delegations sabotaged the entire conference. The message as far as I can tell is this: China is beyond being told how to behave by the west, China probably has a plan to be the dominant world power within ? years. As such China will set the adgenda for world affairs.

Recent statements by the American Pesident such as; 'America will not stand by and let China become the world dominant power' are laughable. China has within the past few days become the number two economy in the world, some would argue that the position of the Chinese and American economies reletive to sovereign debt (ie America owes more money to the Chinese than it can ever repay, and borrows more by the day), means that in some ways China would already be the dominant economy if debt was factored in.

We indeed live in 'interesting times'. We are witnessing a sesmic shift in world power.
The rise of Chinese imperialism and the decline of western imperialism will occur within my lifetime. I don't know how this will turn out or end up, and I doubt wether most western governments do either, however I suspect China knows and has expectations of what her new world will look like. It might be expressed by paraphrasing the old saying "All roads lead to Rome" to "All roads lead to Bejing".
Their are others; "All that Caeser sees, Caeser owns" and "All tribute is due to Caesar".

Brave new world? You betcha!

As The United States of America and the United Kingdom of Great Britain were, so China will be.
 
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