Best Motor Oil

In trying to further explain the complexity of engine oil lubrication vs. "cheep" in #14:

1. "Cheep" is really a very critical mathematical, exponential growth function; and,

2. Model A engine wear, caused by not changing oil often enough .... increases far more when one is considered "cheep-cheep-cheep" as opposed to when one is considered just "cheep".

Hope this helps to partly resolve this Model A engine lubrication mystery.
 
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kd4lok said:
I was told NOT to use detergent oil in engines without an oil filter. Now I'm confused.
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IMO the only things non detergent oil are used for in my book is bicycle chains and chainsaw bars...theres a reason the dollar store used to sell it for $0.75 a qt...

detergents keep the blowby products and other stuff suspended in the oil - yes modern engines that use a filter this gets trapped in the filter, without a filter it just travels around but when you do an oil change it all comes out with the oil.

non detergents let all the blowby products settle (especially if you dont drive everyday) and form sludge in the pan, valve chamber, etc.

Now that i think about it i use 10-40w...
 
H. L. Chauvin said:
In trying to further explain the complexity of engine oil lubrication vs. "cheep" in #14:

1. "Cheep" is really a very critical mathematical, exponential growth function; and,

2. Model A engine wear, caused by not changing oil often enough .... increases far more when one is considered "cheep-cheep-cheep" as opposed to when one is considered just "cheep".

Hope this helps to partly resolve this Model A engine lubrication mystery.
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Thanks Henry for the clarification..I understand now:cool:.
 
kd4lok said:
I was told NOT to use detergent oil in engines without an oil filter. Now I'm confused.
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The argument for Non detergent oil in an A engine is that the particles will settle to the bottom of the pan and not circulate through the bearings and such. The particles are drained out at the oil change. If you use detergent oil the particles are kept in suspension and since there is no filter to remove them from the oil they are allowed to circulate through the bearings and such. True not true?

No one has ever proved that non detergent oil is harmful to the A engine. With all the engine rebuilders on this site not one will come forward and show that the engines they are rebuilding need it due to non detergent oil. With that said neither can they prove that detergent oil is harmful.

I stand by my advice that ANY oil approved for motor vehicles will work great if you change it. Any oil used if left in the engine for prolonged periods or if the engine is not run often and long to prevent condensation WILL damage an engine.
 
With the drain plug removed stick a bent wire or an Allen wrench into the pan and twirl it around to see if it picks up sludge. If it does, then you should remove the pan and side cover and clean out the sludge.

Drop the oil pan upside down on the grass, and the dipper tray should pop out so you can see the sludge.
 
According to the oil engineers, that have commented about what kind of oil the old cars should be using, additives and detergent are what they recommend.

You need additives especially to prevent the build up of acids. You know the stuff that leaves these cool patterns in the bottom of oil pans. I have personally seen a lot of them. The detergents keep the particles in suspension so they will come out when you change the oil. Some of these particles are smaller then what the filter can catch.

Also guys change the oil way too often. The 500 mile thing was in the 1920's when oil was poor quality and there were no additives. Oil needs to be changed when it dirty or out of additives. My guess is a few years or a few thousand miles. You would need to have the oil tested to know for sure. What we do know is your engine is way more likely to fail from being poorly built then wearing out. How many guys expect to get near the 50,000 mile mark on their engines??? Ya, you should expect 50,000 to 80,000 miles on a properly rebuilt engine, no filter and crappy roads cause that is what they got back in the day when the A was new.

BTW, keep in mind condensation occurs when the metal temp allows for the air to condensate on the inside of the metal. The happens often in places with humidity and wide temp variations. So you do not have to run the engine for them to get wet inside. Part of the same reason juice brakes fail.
 
the best oil ive found to the kind with no dirt in it
RyanB said:
I am having a struggle with which motor oil to use in my coupe engine today. It is completely rebuilt and we are adding the fluids to everything today. I would love to hear suggestions on which oil is working the best these days.

Thanks
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Kevin in NJ said:
According to the oil engineers, that have commented about what kind of oil the old cars should be using, additives and detergent are what they recommend.

You need additives especially to prevent the build up of acids. You know the stuff that leaves these cool patterns in the bottom of oil pans. I have personally seen a lot of them. The detergents keep the particles in suspension so they will come out when you change the oil. Some of these particles are smaller then what the filter can catch.

Also guys change the oil way too often. The 500 mile thing was in the 1920's when oil was poor quality and there were no additives. Oil needs to be changed when it dirty or out of additives. My guess is a few years or a few thousand miles. You would need to have the oil tested to know for sure. What we do know is your engine is way more likely to fail from being poorly built then wearing out. How many guys expect to get near the 50,000 mile mark on their engines??? Ya, you should expect 50,000 to 80,000 miles on a properly rebuilt engine, no filter and crappy roads cause that is what they got back in the day when the A was new.

BTW, keep in mind condensation occurs when the metal temp allows for the air to condensate on the inside of the metal. The happens often in places with humidity and wide temp variations. So you do not have to run the engine for them to get wet inside. Part of the same reason juice brakes fail.
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Are you suggesting that we pay attention to anything an engineer says? Wayne
 
Hold On! Did I read that correctly? This engine hasn't run in over a half a century? Or it hasn't run in over half a century so you had it rebuilt? It's big difference! And engine that hasn't run in a long time acquires a coating of rust on the cam and lifters that won't be on those parts if new or reconditioned. On the other hand if it's just a old engine, put the cheapest cruddiest oil in the block that you can find (Wolf's Head, Fox Head, remanufactured, what have you)Why? Because your'e going to dump it soon after starting it. You see, starting an engine that hasn't been run in several years scrape's that rust off the cam and lifters and it runs through your bearings like sand. Dumping the oil soon after starting will get rid of most of it. If the parts are new, disregard the foregoing. I like Shell Rotella or Castrol 10-40.
Terry
 
Mike V Sez: No one has ever proved that non detergent oil is harmful to the A engine.

Mike, are you saying the sludge build up inside an engine that used ND oil isn't harmful?
 
one summer while attending university I worked at the production facility for one of the world's largest refineries. At the start of the shift we were given the orders for the day. We would change the cans or labels but the oil going in them was the same. The cans read different but the contents remained the same. The only difference was that detergent and non detergent oils were separated. Wayne
 
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Dollar Bill said:
Mike V Sez: No one has ever proved that non detergent oil is harmful to the A engine.

Mike, are you saying the sludge build up inside an engine that used ND oil isn't harmful?
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None detergent oil without additives will be harmful to the engine. If you do nothing to prevent the acids and such from occurring it will etch the metal and damage the bearings. For extreme examples look at old engines that have been laying around for years.

For wear and particle size, well modern engines wear because the small size particles are not filtered out by the filters.
See this paper: Wear Particles

Oils and filtering is way over thought by guys wanting to do stuff to their cars constantly. Like the guys changing their points every year.

You are not likely to drive your car enough to wear it out from the large particles let along the small ones. It is not like you are going to put 100,000 miles on the car. The engine is most likely to fail from someone not building it right.
The biggest threat to your engine is the buildup of bad chemicals in the oil. Modern oils combat that well. Diesel oils may even do it better.

Using a decent quality oil with additives and detergent you will never have and engine failure because of 'old' oil or wearing out of the engine due to the oil. Save the environment and leave it in for a couple of years or a few thousand miles.

Stop worrying and drive.
 
modern oils that are for passenger car use are for modern engine materials. rottella is good 15-40 I like to add lucas oil stabilizer. pull your pan it can have alot of sludge in it, mine did. I also like valvoline vr1 racing oil. i use the 50w/lucas in an old truck that wouldnt run oil pressure until it got the 50w.
 
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