Barn Find asking for help

[Diastole]

To all who can help and offer guidance:

A friend's neighbor passed. The family is asking for help.
I have been asked to advise on the two Barn Finds.
No one knows which decade these last were started.

What should I do?

I let the neighbor borrow some parts until I can go see the cars. He pulled one distributor and changed the spark wires.

I have never been asked to resurrect a true Barn Find.

Any advice and help would be greatly appreciated.

The family is overwhelmed. "Grandaddy lived alone for the last 35 years."

Many videos show starting barn finds. Is it that simple?


Pleading for help in the Smoky Mountains

Diastole

 

[Chuck Dempsey]

WOW, what a find! Good Luck! If you feel OK sharing, what part of the Smokies are you in? If not, no problem! I'm in Waynesville, NC.....

 

[Marshall V. Daut]

They both look like 1929 models, a roadster and a phaeton. Lots of work ahead, but they appear solid from the photos. Somebody liked maroon.
Marshall

 

[Diastole]

My plan is to swap out the carburetor for a rebuilt one and the distributor as well.
Drain and replace the gas.
Check the oil, and if the color looks good, top it off.
Add oil down the distributor hole in the head and a bit in each spark plug hole.
New coil and four new plugs.
New Rural King battery.
Set points "open" and see if there is any current out of the battery, looking for shorts or grounds.
Time it.
Then see if she or her sister turns over.


Any thoughts on this plan or another?


I appreciate any thoughts, no matter how critical. I am trying to help this family. I am not interested in acquiring a new car, just trying to treat these Ol' Ladies with the deference they deserve.
I have recruited some help for our Club, too, but none of us have experience with Barn Finds.

 

[Keith True]

Sounds like you're on the right track,if you can get a couple of heads together it will help.I'll stand there and help somebody,but I gave up trying to help with a typewriter.It's also hard to get people to help when the plan is to get something running and peddle it off.If somebody gets an old car,and wants to fix it up to keep,lots more people will help.On those two cars when they are all done,what do you have? RHD cars.Hard sell.I won't even cross the street to look at a RHD car for sale.

 

[alexiskai]

I did a video a few months ago that walks you through a checklist for reviving a car that has sat for a few years. Covers similar ground to what you already listed, but you may find it helpful:
https://youtu.be/TwpUvYfwnvE

In my case, I was reviving a car that had only sat for maybe five years. If yours has sat for 20+, you need to be more careful. For example, don't hit the starter right away, but instead turn it over with the crank and make sure 100% of the rotating assembly is moving freely (I show this in the video). A lot of folks also recommend dropping the pan, because if there's 30 year-old sludge in there and you stir it up, you could clog the oil pump.

 

[Bill Cilker]

They are both right hand drive cars with front fender lights.
But that does not change the process of starting them.

 

[Marshall V. Daut]

If the grandfather had owned these right-hand drive open cars for a long time, it's possible that he bought them from a man who advertised in "Hemmings" and "The Restorer" in the late 1960's, offering right-hand drive roadsters and phaetons from South America. These were not incomplete rusted hulks pulled out of junkyards down there, but cars still with tops and mostly drivable, as I recall. Lots of Deluxe Phaetons! His name was Sam Sherman, or something like that. He imported them to New York. He stated a price for the cars and then added that the buyer had to pay all shipping and import duties. His ads in "The Restorer" usually showed three or four roadsters and phaetons, sometimes pictured in a box of four.
Do any of you old-timers in this hobby remember those ads? These two barnfinds from Grandpa sure look like that ilk of imported right-hand drive Model A's.
Do an

 

[nkaminar]

You can swap out parts to shortcut getting them started, but the old parts, distributor, carburetor, coil, plugs, etc. will likely be good with some cleaning, so don't discard them. Check for water in bottom of transmission, engine, rearend. Clean battery connectors on the ends of the cables. If the gas tanks are full of rust and/or very old gasoline, that will be your biggest challenge. The cars likely ran when they were parked.

Don't let this happen to you. Maintain your cars and when you are too old to do so then pass them along or sell them before the mice get them.

 

[Synchro909]

If it weren't for the horrendous cost these days to get a car out of the US, I'd put up my hand for the roadster mainly becuase no none has butchered the back of it and converted to a dickie seat. YUK!
As has been noted, they are RHD with side lights. While they may be amongst the shipment f cars from South Africa, the sidelights suggest they may be from England. If so, they may have the small engine.
I can't add to or contradict any of the advice given above to bring them back to life.

 

[ModelA29]

First mistake........
I let the neighbor borrow some parts until I can go see the cars.


They look to be complete runners and just parked. Clean the carbs bypass the fuel tanks and start cranking.

 

[gdmn852]

Hello On the comments of imported cars , I recall Pages Model A having a few , looked at a 1938 Deluxe Sedan, but it was from Denmark if I recall correctly. Also remember those ads for South America imports , demand for Model A s was so high in late 70s and early 80, s they brought them in from out of USA .Agree with all the advice given above , although reviving these car will probably disturb some mice and woodland animals.

 

[rotorwrench]

Model A and other flathead engines love to stick valves. Make sure they rotate with a hand crank and use a thumb to check compression. The timing chest will be dried out after many moons of slumber so it's a good idea to pull the distributor and pour about a quart of oil down in there to prime the main bearings of oil. It sounds like you are aware of the fuel system issues that could be present. There could be fan belt and water pump issues as well as rubber hose issues but they can be run with no coolant for a little while just to start them.

Lots of clean up work there but at least they look intact for the most part. Break a leg. Your work is cut out for you.

 

[alexiskai]

The timing chest will be dried out after many moons of slumber so it's a good idea to pull the distributor and pour about a quart of oil down in there to prime the main bearings of oil.

This is good advice, but I think you meant "valve chamber." "Timing chest" is normally a motorcycle term. The Model A has a timing chest at the front of the engine, but oiling it is secondary to getting oil into the valve chamber and then down to the bearings.

 

[BButturff]

I agree with what others have said. However, it will most likely take time and money to get these started and even more to get them driving. In reality, the family should consider what these would sell for and if getting them running will really increase what someone is willing to pay for one. Additionally, if the buyer isn't very close the cost to transport one. Now if someone in the family wanted to keep one or both of them your efforts will be worthwhile.

 

[alexiskai]

I agree with what others have said. However, it will most likely take time and money to get these started and even more to get them driving. In reality, the family should consider what these would sell for and if getting them running will really increase what someone is willing to pay for one. Additionally, if the buyer isn't very close the cost to transport one. Now if someone in the family wanted to keep one or both of them your efforts will be worthwhile.

A running car is absolutely worth more than a non-running car. It also significantly expands the number of buyers who will consider it.

 

[Ordsgt]

I have worked on cars like this and caution you on topping off the oil. I have seen the dipstick look like the oil is OK but when you take the drain plug out of the pan nothing drains. Drop the pan and find a couple of inches of sludge in the pan and the dipper tray full also. It required removing the pan to clean it all out.
As was already pointed out there will probably be a number of valves and or lifters stuck. Removing lifter cover and you can see which are sticking. I used PB blaster and worked them and hand cranking until they were free . also removed manifolds to gain access to valve stems to spray with PB blaster


Des


Just my experience

 

[Diastole]

To All:

Thank you so much for all the great advice, both in the postings and in the PMs.

We reviewed the video, and we followed it closely.

Ya'll are also correct. The oil on the dipstick looked good, but when we opened the drain plug, it was all sludge and some paste! It took 5 gallons of kerosene, scrubbing, and scraping to get the sludge out.

I have received several PMs asking for updates

History:
The couple (our club did not know the couple) moved to the Smoky Mountains in 1988. They purchased the cars as a matched pair in Florida. They were used in parades frequently. When they moved to Tenn, he parked them in the garage and did not drive them. He is not a mechanic, and his automotive repair shop in Florida would not come here to service them. The family never saw Grandaddy drive either car. He was too scared in case "something broke. He always said they were perfect." See pic of Grandaddy as a young man, face blurred out of respect.



Barn Find visit:
The day primarily consisted of work on the Phaeton:

Initial assessment: they are rough, with good bones and no damage, but overall in a bad way.

The couple's church's elders helped by providing water and frequent errands to get supplies (oil, water for radiator, etc). Super nice people!

Like the other posters in this thread said, "focus on the engine." We did that only.

We addressed the Phaeton first -- closest to the garage door and unmolested by "mechanics" -- the true barn find.


Steps:
Fluids:
Removed drain plug = sludge and paste. One guy spent hours cleaning out all the old oil with kerosene. Replaced with fresh detergent 10-30.
Drained and flushed coolant. Clear green (heavy antifreeze). No rust. No leaks.

Electrical->
replaced battery
Disconnected cutout (cover missing); dirt, rust, elements = cutout bad.
Removed cover of starter and inspected; aged but clean and no shorts.
Checked continuity and function of solenoid. Passed. No voltage drop.
Checked for grounds and parasitic drain—no current leaving the battery with points open.
No armored cable—ignition coil wired directly to distributor. Hmmmmm?
Checked Coil -- primary coil bad (internal windings of primary coil = dead short). Replaced with new 6V epoxy-filled, and hooked up correctly, (+) to points. Granddaddy had the (-) side of the coil directly to the distributor.
Replaced distributor with an overhauled spare the club has.
Set points at 0.020"
Checked gap from rotor to lugs 0.035"
Distributor housing had continuity to all four plugs
Checked continuity and for grounds
Timed

Engine->
Removed plugs, inspected, checked ohms, cleaned, and gapped to 0.035"
Changed crushable gaskets
Bore scoped combustion chambers (pics coming; I'm not techy, and we need one of our kids to download the pics). All valves moved and seated. Exhaust valves not original. All 8 have new seats. One seat burned.
Cylinders look ok.
Overall lots of carbon, no rust.
Belt old but flexible.
Hand-cranked engine and thumb test felt compression. Thanks, FordBarn - great tip.

Fuel->
Fule tank empty. With borescope, no rust.
New ethanol-free gas
Fuel bowl leaked; tightened, and that helped some.
Removed fule line to carburetor. Clean gas ran out.
Cycled carburetor and oiled all joints. Bought a spare, but we guessed we should try Grandaddy's. Gas leaked from the bottom, but not badly.

Tried to start, and after 5 or so attempts - nothing.
Checked electrical (our club says 90% of carburetor problems are electrical)
No spark. No spark when the ignition cable was held next to a ground. Checked, and the ignition cable was bad - no continuity. Swapped with a new one.
Tried to start with a split-open distributor cap; we saw spark, and as we were not getting a boom and as we all started to look at one another -- putt putt vroooomm.
She started!
Carb linkage cycled. It works!
Smoke at manifold (leak likely at gasket from loose nuts). WD-40 sprayed on manifold - no change in RPM.

Collective amazement. Handshakes. Family crying.
We were actually kinda surprised.

One guy said, "Let's drive it around the yard." And asked permission from family. They nodded, because they could not speak.

RHD A Models have different pedal configurations. We did not know if the shifting pattern was different - it is NOT.

She drove well. No smoke; stopped when the brakes were applied; clutch soft but worked; she is alive! The 7-tooth steering had excessive play. We noticed a zerk fitting on the fill plug.

On the next visit, we will replace the cowl, clean her, and replace her distributor after a club member rembuilds Granddaddy's.

The family started hugging all these old, sweaty guys.


Great day for a Model A!

Next visit will be for the Roadster. One club member pulled the plugs and another borescoped it. The exhaust valve is stuck in the OPEN position. PB Blaster, WD-40, a wooden dowel, a curse word, and a kicked tire all could not get that valve down. We will tackle her on the next visit.

I will keep you posted.


Please, please critique us! What should we have done differently? What did we do wrong? What did we not do that we should have?

Ya'll please share your knowledge and experience.

We do not have thin skin.

We are just trying to help a family and resurrect two forgotten ladies.

With Much Gratitude,
Diastole

PS:
How do we unstick an exhaust valve from the open position?



Here is a video of the first moment this Model A saw the light of day since 1988 (38 years)

https://youtu.be/4P2TPc6jXho?si=Z8Yoi5Fn_ChMKtv2

 

[alexiskai]

If a valve is stuck in the open position, the sticking is almost certainly happening between the lifter and the bore, which means you'll have to take the valve cover off. Once you do that, you can access the lifter directly and apply penetrating oil to hopefully free it.

I've seen people remove the head and tap on the valve with a dead-blow hammer. This may work, but has a relatively high risk of damaging the valve if the lifter is seriously stuck.

 

[Chuck Dempsey]

Great work! Congrats...