Jack Shaft
BANNED
I always wondered how many pancakes it takes to shingle a doghouse..Naturally aspirated engines require atmospheric pressure to move air..that air flow can still be measured.
Anyone run a Lion Head
- Thread starter Model A Ron
- Start date
johnneilson
Well-known member
I just replaced a Snyder 6:1 with a Lion III. The Snyder head is a good solid performer but the Lion III seems to provide a wider, flatter torque curve (by the seat of the pants measure). To be fair, I also changed to the FSI ignition at the time because of the spark plug locations. I honestly think the Lion III improved performance with better flow.
The Lion III is made to be about 6.5± compression but is thicker than the stock head designs so it can be machined down if higher compression is desired.
Also, I have a Stipe cam, a Weber carb and the cast iron header from Snyder's on a fresh rebuild. This is a pretty balanced combination although it wants a lot of timing advance at lower RPM. I made a plate to limit total spark advance to about 31° at the crank but it wants at least 10° off idle or it will hesitate.
Just some more information to further confuse...
The Lion III is made to be about 6.5± compression but is thicker than the stock head designs so it can be machined down if higher compression is desired.
Also, I have a Stipe cam, a Weber carb and the cast iron header from Snyder's on a fresh rebuild. This is a pretty balanced combination although it wants a lot of timing advance at lower RPM. I made a plate to limit total spark advance to about 31° at the crank but it wants at least 10° off idle or it will hesitate.
Just some more information to further confuse...
Model A Ron
Well-known member
Did you have to do any further modification to the Lion Head III? What is your opinion on putting one on a stock Engine? From what I understand they need additional machining to avoid pinging......is this true from your experience?
Thanks
Ron
Chris in WNC
Well-known member
Only things I had to change for the Lion I were a longer spark control rod with a bend in the middle to clear the cooling fins and longer spark plug connectors.
Cut down two old rods and connected them with a short piece of steel tubing glued together with JB Weld.
Hooked up spark plugs with Model T style wire and a modern style cap replacing the stock distributor body and cap.
Worked well and I sold the mods with the head later.
Actually traded the Lion for a new Brumfield head.
A friend was building a Behrig Convertible Victoria replica, he wanted something "different" for it.
Cut down two old rods and connected them with a short piece of steel tubing glued together with JB Weld.
Hooked up spark plugs with Model T style wire and a modern style cap replacing the stock distributor body and cap.
Worked well and I sold the mods with the head later.
Actually traded the Lion for a new Brumfield head.
A friend was building a Behrig Convertible Victoria replica, he wanted something "different" for it.
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Exactly! With the throttle closed very little air can be pushed into the intake tract, so as the piston descends on the intake stroke a partial vacuum is formed. When the throttle is opened, air flow resumes and the vacuum goes away. Since we're discussing ways to increase power at or near full throttle, we want as much air as possible to be pushed into the cylinders to gain full advantage of a high compression head.
alexiskai
Well-known member
I've been dealing with the plug connector issue on the Winfield head as well. Any head that changes the location of the plugs will require modifications to the connectors.
I had initially planned to fabricate longer bronze connectors to maintain the stock look, but the #3 connector is close enough to the spark control rod that I'm pretty sure it would arc if I used an uninsulated connector there.
Right now I'm experimenting with the Model T wire and brass terminals to see whether I can make something that looks period and doesn't, like, fall off. I'm trying to keep the stock distributor body.
Gene,
Is your LSH III the head from Steve's Coupe?
If so that is the same LSH III head that I mentioned in post #37.
katy
Well-known member
How about insulating the spark control rod?
alexiskai
Well-known member
That's a good idea, I'll do that if I can't get the wire thing to work.
johnneilson
Well-known member
Something like this?
Attachments
Ron,
I bolted the head on as received (except for some Ford engine paint). I asked Dennis Piriano about doing any smoothing of the casting in the combustion chamber and he said it was unnecessary. As far as bolting to an otherwise stock engine, that is an expensive upgrade that will not perform to its full potential. If you don't provide more air flow to the combustion chamber, you will not get much improvement. If I was keeping the rest of the engine stock, I would go with the Snyder's 5.5 or 6.0 head. It will give you more torque but you won't be wasting money on flow that you are not feeding to the engine. You need to do your performance upgrades in a balanced manner. The Lion moves the spark plugs way over to the driver's side so you need to change to modern spark plug wires.
When we were dumb kids building muscle cars we would typically have too much cam and too much carb/manifold; but it sure looked cool !!! The result was usually a poor performing engine but oh, the bragging about what you had in it.
Steve told me that he had sold his Lion III a while ago but that was before I caught the performance bug. I think he found a Winfield to replace the Lion and he loves it.
A model Thom
Junior Member
Fist time poster here but I want to share my experience with lionspeed heads, I've been involved with two engines with lionspeed heads, the first one is a lionspeed IV only drilled for one set of spark plugs and fsi distributor on my mums otherwise stock 28 sport coupe
I drove the car before and after the head and ignition, the differences were night and day, and for the better, I was only ever game to take it above 65mph once (it's my mums car and I didn't want to kill it just to find out what it would do) but at cruising speed and taking off the car was much nicer to drive, it also takes hills much easier than stock.
The other is one is a lionspeed III on a mildly hopped up banger I built for my otherwise stock 30 town sedan, the engine has a home made 4 into 1 header, repop burns intake, Stromberg 97, reground b cam, ported block, lightened flywheel and a few other bits and pieces
The engine is way healthier than the b that was previously in the car, the engine has enough guts to pull 65 with 4.11 gears (it could really do with some 3.78's or maybe even 3.54's because I don't want to turn it too hard). In summary I'm happy with both lionspeed heads on both engines
https://youtu.be/GV29aWeIy0M
I drove the car before and after the head and ignition, the differences were night and day, and for the better, I was only ever game to take it above 65mph once (it's my mums car and I didn't want to kill it just to find out what it would do) but at cruising speed and taking off the car was much nicer to drive, it also takes hills much easier than stock.
The other is one is a lionspeed III on a mildly hopped up banger I built for my otherwise stock 30 town sedan, the engine has a home made 4 into 1 header, repop burns intake, Stromberg 97, reground b cam, ported block, lightened flywheel and a few other bits and pieces
The engine is way healthier than the b that was previously in the car, the engine has enough guts to pull 65 with 4.11 gears (it could really do with some 3.78's or maybe even 3.54's because I don't want to turn it too hard). In summary I'm happy with both lionspeed heads on both engines
https://youtu.be/GV29aWeIy0M
Gene F
Well-known member
Tell me about harmonic balancers. How much they run, and why would I want one?
alexiskai
Well-known member
CarlG
Well-known member
Rennr's Corner has a stock looking distributor cap that will accept "modern" style wire connectors rather than the brass strips.
Attachments
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Model A Ron
Well-known member
In my opinion the original style distributer with the brass strips looks much better.
CarlG
Well-known member
But if you are using a head with spark plugs in a different place, and want to use the stock style cap, what choice do you have?
Model A Ron
Well-known member
This is one of the reasons I am leaning to a stock style high compression head. All I want from my Model A in terms of speed is for it to travel at 60mph for extended periods of time when needed. The look of the stock engine screams antique and I love that.
Ron