Another Steering Question - see Pictures p2

Pilotdave

Pilotdave

Well-known member
We recently acquired a '31 roadster and I find that the steering gets pretty stiff after driving a while. I did a search and found tons of material on steering (no surprise there) but nothing that was specific to this question:

With the front end off the ground, I can turn the entire steering system left by pulling the left front tire to the left. I cannot turn it to the right by pulling the same tire to the right. Does this suggest a specific problem with the steering? If so, what might it be?

Thanks much!
 
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Re: Another Steering Question

My car is the same and i just had it rebuilt by a reputable rebuilder.Although it steers nice mine cant be turned back by pulling on the tire.Im ancious to hear the responses
 
Re: Another Steering Question

So are you saying it steers easily when you start then it gets stiffer or are you getting tired of steering it?
 
Re: Another Steering Question

jkeesey - I have only driven the car a couple of times, so it's hard to be definitive....but I meant the first of your two choices. I absolutely was not "getting tired of steering it."
 
Re: Another Steering Question

Are you sure it has W600 oil in it? I just rebuilt a Gemmer two tooth that had a grease fitting installed in the sector housing. The thing was filled with black grease. It wouldn't turn either direction by pulling on the tire. Centering the sector to the worm can also effect how well it turns. This is explained in Les Andrews book.
 
Re: Another Steering Question

I didn't mean to offend with getting tired of steering it just wanted to be clear. Grease would be a problem everyone seems to think if it has a grease fitting it gets grease. It could be the grease or the bearings gettings stiff from lack of lubrication or the mesh of the gears could not be set properly.
 
Re: Another Steering Question

Ca. Kid said:
Are you sure it has W600 oil in it? I just rebuilt a Gemmer two tooth that had a grease fitting installed in the sector housing. The thing was filled with black grease. It wouldn't turn either direction by pulling on the tire. Centering the sector to the worm can also effect how well it turns. This is explained in Les Andrews book.
Click to expand...


Back in the old days Ford dealers replaced the plug with a grease fitting. They had a hose connected to 600W oil. They would fill the box this way. This convinced people that the box was supposed to be filled with grease. The box should have 600W oil in it, not grease.

Take what ever plug is in the top of the steering box out and force some 600W oil into it. Rotate the steering wheel back and forth, add some more 600W. Somebody may have filled it with grease. Keep working it and filling with 600W. It should finally free up.

Tom Endy
 
Re: Another Steering Question

Dave, I don't think anyone will be offended by your comment! CA Kid brings up a good point because a lot of guys use grease instead of 600W like the book says. You might consider getting one of the shorter pitman arms to make your steering easier.
You didn't mention how it turned with the tires lifted off the garage floor. I always
lubed mine with the wheels jacked up and the tires turned all the way to the right and all the way to the left. That way you can insure that you will get it totally lubed.

Jack
 
Re: Another Steering Question

Thanks for all the input. Couple of things:

1. With the wheels off the floor, the effort to turn the steering wheel left from center was minimal. Turning right (from center) takes a bit more. Turning back to center from right felt like it was binding a bit.

2. I found the steering box (correct plug installed) had little or no oil in it. I filled it with the Penrite product that has been recommended on here in some of the older threads. This stuff is super-thick oil, and I did indeed need to spin the steering wheel to suck this the Penrite into the box. I THINK the steering is a little easier with the wheels off the floor; needs to be road tested when it stops raining!

3. I plan to go through the entire steering system starting with checking the steering box adjustments, pitman and steering arm balls, replacing the kingpins (they have a little slop in them), adjusting toe-in, etc, etc. But I did find it odd that pulling on the tire worked only in one direction and am curious as to what causes that. Might save me some time!! Replies thus far identified lack of lube, improper lube and steering box settings as possible causes. The box is now filled with good lube, there's no grease in there, and the steering box needs going over. I plan to start by disconnecting the drag link to see if the problem changes at all.

Other ideas are welcome! Thanks again for the help.
 
Re: Another Steering Question

Dave,
When I got my '30, the box was about 1/2 full of grease, apparently pumped in from pitman arm fitting at the bottom. I topped it off with Valvoline Synthetic Multi-Grade posi-traction oil. Over 2 weeks of driving, it gradually got better & better. After a 90 degree turn, it would almost return to straight on it's own! You gettin' better, I hope? Bill W.
 
Re: Another Steering Question

Bill, sounds as though you'd agree that a good road test is in order. I'm happy to do that!

Thanks for asking - yes, I am part-way through four cycles of chemo and indeed getting better. Playing with the Model A's is great therapy, too. :)
 
Re: Another Steering Question

If you notice the same problem after your test drive pull the pitman arm link and cycle your steering box right to left on the wheel and see if the bindings in there, if it feels fine check all your steering balls.
 
Re: Another Steering Question

While it might be a bit early to tell, problems with binding on one side could be from the sector not being centralized.

Simple stuff to consider.

Is the sector tight? Keep in mind it should have only .001" of clearance in the bushings. If you can feel up and down play it is too loose. Do you have in and out play?
A warning, the bushings the parts houses sell are too large an ID to properly work for a NOS sector.

At the mid point (count the revolutions at the steering wheel and go 1/2 that) do you have any play at the sector?

You may want to start with taking the box out of the car and follow the Ford adjustment procedures as found in the service bulletins. If you do not own a copy of the service bulletins then I suggest that you get them and read up on the 2 tooth steering box before you proceed.
 
Re: Another Steering Question

I had a similar problem and it wound up being a weak front spring. With the front jacked up everything was fine, and out driving everything was OK at first, then as the front spring would settle after driving with the weight the drag link would settle on the tie rod. The steering would be noticeably more difficult. When it would sit in the garage in between drives it would be fine. The next time you drive it, if it becomes difficult while it is difficult to steer, look and see if your drag link is touching the tie rod. I replaced the front spring and that took care of the problem. Something could be adjusted a little to tight in the box as well.
 
Re: Another Steering Question

Some new data. Took the roadster out for a 17 mile spin, about half of the Sunday drive. Steering felt easier. In the shop with wheels off the floor, it also felt better. The other part of the story....

With wheels off the floor and centered, I can pull on either tire and turn to the right or left. With wheels turned right, pulling on the wheels will not turn back to the left.

Is this sounding like a sector shaft that needs centering? Or something else?

I did not see any evidence of the drag link resting on the tie rod.

I have both the Service Bulletins and Les Andrews' books - will be doing some reading to brush up on the steering box adjusting business.


Thanks much.
 
Re: Another Steering Question

Tom Endy said:
Back in the old days Ford dealers replaced the plug with a grease fitting. They had a hose connected to 600W oil. They would fill the box this way. This convinced people that the box was supposed to be filled with grease. The box should have 600W oil in it, not grease.

Take what ever plug is in the top of the steering box out and force some 600W oil into it. Rotate the steering wheel back and forth, add some more 600W. Somebody may have filled it with grease. Keep working it and filling with 600W. It should finally free up.

Tom Endy
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, I have to use grease, cause 600w drips out in about a day. No problem with steering, very little free play and easy to steer. Of course I grease both fittings about every 100 miles. That forces the older grease out and keeps everything lubricated. When the steering gets loose, I'll pull the box, rebuild it and put 600w in it. Till then, I'll have to keep using grease. I do hate using grease instead of 600w and will be much happier when I can use the proper lubricant.
 
Re: Another Steering Question

The problem with grease is when the gears turn inside the box it cuts grooves into the grease and takes out a large portion of its lubrication ability. Just about every old model a box leaks, try using STP or lucas oil additive instead they are both thick and don't leak as easily but still have the oil characteristics.
 
Re: Another Steering Question

Paul from Maine said:
Unfortunately, I have to use grease, cause 600w drips out in about a day. I do hate using grease instead of 600w and will be much happier when I can use the proper lubricant.
Click to expand...


Like a previous post stated, Try using Penrite 1200W Steering Gear Lube. It will still flow but barely and will stay in the box much better. I get mine from Restoration Supply in Escondido, California. 800-306-7008 www.RestorationStuff.com

CW
 
Re: Another Steering Question

CW - that's the source and product I just used. The stuff flows like thick molasses, so be ready to spend 30-40 minutes filling the box. Here's the link to their catalog - see p24. The 500ml bottle should fill two boxes, I believe. http://www.restorationstuff.com/pdf/RestorationSupplyCompany.pdf
I'll be checking for leaks now and then.

I'm still interested in ideas about the results reported above and reproduced here:

"With wheels off the floor and centered, I can pull on either tire and turn to the right or left. With wheels turned right, pulling on the wheels will not turn back to the left." With wheels turned left, I can center the wheels by pulling on either wheel. (Added)

"Is this sounding like a sector shaft that needs centering? Or something else?"

Any thoughts out there? Thanks.
 
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