53 8BA Flathead Running Hot – Looking for Cooling Advice

Re: 53 8BA Flathead Running Hot – Looking for Cooling Advice

Kurt in NJ said:
Has it been verified that the water pumps are pumping?
Is it one bank overheating or both at same temperature?
Any floating debris that could be from mouse nest?
If you drain cool and below the core are all visible tubes open?
If you run your hands over the radiator fins do they all move?
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Yeah all this has been done, system was acid flushed and cleaned, had a clear tube so I could see both pumps are strong, but that may have been at a higher RPM as I was using a drill to turn them not engine power.

I don’t know how mice get into the cooling system without having opposable thumbs.

I have a makeshift temporary shroud for testing and it allows the system to pull more air through the corners than without.

I can move the temporary sending unit, on the next test, to the other head and get some readings.

If the change in fan pulley doesn’t do anything I probably need to go back and pull the pumps and inspect for issues.

If one side runs significantly cooler than the other I may start by pulling just the hotter pump.

I did use a IR thermometer to get the surface temp on both heads and the left side is running about 5 degrees hotter, but the right side has the heater core and isn’t partially block like the left side is with the alternator.
 
Re: 53 8BA Flathead Running Hot – Looking for Cooling Advice

Understand that based on the “Fan Laws”, increasing airflow costs more hp, so you could be chasing your tail.

3 Basic Fan Laws


Before explaining each fan law, I want to talk about their limitations. These laws are only applicable when we are not changing the configuration of the fan propeller (diameter, number of blades, blade pitch angle, and hub size) and the geometry of the fan inlet or outlet. Think of the limitations as constants in a science experiment where we would hold some variables constant and change only one variable to observe the changes in outcomes.

Here are brief explanations of each law:

Fan Law 1 tells us that the change in air flow rate of a fan is proportional to the change in speed of the propeller. If the propeller speed is increased by 10%, the air flow rate will also increase by 10%.

Fan Law 2 tells us that the change in total static pressure of the ventilation system will increase by the square of the change in propeller speed of the fan.If the propeller speed is increased by 10%, the total static pressure will increase 21%.

Fan Law 3 tells us that the change in horsepower required by the fan to turn the propeller will increase by the cube of the change in propeller speed of the fan. If the propeller speed is increased by 10%, the horsepower required to turn the propeller will increase 33.1%.
 

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Re: 53 8BA Flathead Running Hot – Looking for Cooling Advice

I just timed a 8BA in a 48 Ford with a overheating problem rerouted the vacuum pick up to the carb rather than the manifold ,all is now well ,Ted
 
Re: 53 8BA Flathead Running Hot – Looking for Cooling Advice

Ziggster said:
Understand that based on the “Fan Laws”, increasing airflow costs more hp, so you could be chasing your tail.

3 Basic Fan Laws


Before explaining each fan law, I want to talk about their limitations. These laws are only applicable when we are not changing the configuration of the fan propeller (diameter, number of blades, blade pitch angle, and hub size) and the geometry of the fan inlet or outlet. Think of the limitations as constants in a science experiment where we would hold some variables constant and change only one variable to observe the changes in outcomes.

Here are brief explanations of each law:

Fan Law 1 tells us that the change in air flow rate of a fan is proportional to the change in speed of the propeller. If the propeller speed is increased by 10%, the air flow rate will also increase by 10%.

Fan Law 2 tells us that the change in total static pressure of the ventilation system will increase by the square of the change in propeller speed of the fan.If the propeller speed is increased by 10%, the total static pressure will increase 21%.

Fan Law 3 tells us that the change in horsepower required by the fan to turn the propeller will increase by the cube of the change in propeller speed of the fan. If the propeller speed is increased by 10%, the horsepower required to turn the propeller will increase 33.1%.
Click to expand...
589871
 
Re: 53 8BA Flathead Running Hot – Looking for Cooling Advice

Don't get me wrong ,I think the car looks great. But if its to low to drive and thats how you want it why are you worried about it running hot? Also , with the car sitting in the weeds(which I like) the heat has a harder time getting out of the engine bay. Something I noticed in your pics is that your running stock exaust manifolds. Headers would let the exaust heat out of the block much faster. Tim
 
Re: 53 8BA Flathead Running Hot – Looking for Cooling Advice

Ziggster said:
Understand that based on the “Fan Laws”, increasing airflow costs more hp, so you could be chasing your tail.

3 Basic Fan Laws


Before explaining each fan law, I want to talk about their limitations. These laws are only applicable when we are not changing the configuration of the fan propeller (diameter, number of blades, blade pitch angle, and hub size) and the geometry of the fan inlet or outlet. Think of the limitations as constants in a science experiment where we would hold some variables constant and change only one variable to observe the changes in outcomes.

Here are brief explanations of each law:

Fan Law 1 tells us that the change in air flow rate of a fan is proportional to the change in speed of the propeller. If the propeller speed is increased by 10%, the air flow rate will also increase by 10%.

Fan Law 2 tells us that the change in total static pressure of the ventilation system will increase by the square of the change in propeller speed of the fan.If the propeller speed is increased by 10%, the total static pressure will increase 21%.

Fan Law 3 tells us that the change in horsepower required by the fan to turn the propeller will increase by the cube of the change in propeller speed of the fan. If the propeller speed is increased by 10%, the horsepower required to turn the propeller will increase 33.1%.
Click to expand...

Ziggster, your logic is correct and getting a smaller pulley also would be the more difficult to find.

Currently the fan is a 4 blade and if I can get a well designed 6 blade fan it will produce more CFM at a lower HP cost than moving the same CFM with the 4 blade.

I think at this point in the conversation I need to confess which car I’m working on because of the suggestions to change components or ride height from what they currently are.

This is the Junior Conway “Teardrop” and I am limited as the amount of changes that can be done.

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/a-late-introduction-junior-conway-coupe-build.406588/
 
Re: 53 8BA Flathead Running Hot – Looking for Cooling Advice

Son of a Ford said:
Yeah all this has been done, system was acid flushed and cleaned, had a clear tube so I could see both pumps are strong, but that may have been at a higher RPM as I was using a drill to turn them not engine power.

I don’t know how mice get into the cooling system without having opposable thumbs.

I have a makeshift temporary shroud for testing and it allows the system to pull more air through the corners than without.

I can move the temporary sending unit, on the next test, to the other head and get some readings.

If the change in fan pulley doesn’t do anything I probably need to go back and pull the pumps and inspect for issues.

If one side runs significantly cooler than the other I may start by pulling just the hotter pump.

I did use a IR thermometer to get the surface temp on both heads and the left side is running about 5 degrees hotter, but the right side has the heater core and isn’t partially block like the left side is with the alternator.
Click to expand...

according to google, it's because, "their bodies feature flexible skeletons, collapsible ribs, and a skull that serves as their only rigid limitation.". and WRT to the "thumbs" thing, i think they've got a pretty good point-and-shoot "pusher" propulsion system.
 
Re: 53 8BA Flathead Running Hot – Looking for Cooling Advice

The right side (of an 8BA at least) usually runs a bit cooler then the left side. Like you, I think it has to do with the heater core and hoses, but don't know exactly why.
 
Re: 53 8BA Flathead Running Hot – Looking for Cooling Advice

In my Esperance A 8BA in the stock form drawing vacuum from the Manifold and not the carb will hold it retarded resulting in overheating , low on power I am all for shrouds though I run a home made shroud on my 34 and it keeps all under control even with the stock paddle pumps ,Ted
 
Re: 53 8BA Flathead Running Hot – Looking for Cooling Advice

The distributor doesn’t have a vacuum advance. There is a port in the manifold that I can attach a gauge to get my reading and adjust to get the most vacuum.

Although now that I’ve brought it back to 5-6 degrees BTDC it wants to be at less than 15lbs of vacuum when before I was able to have it steady around 20.
 
Re: 53 8BA Flathead Running Hot – Looking for Cooling Advice

I am not up with your set up ,more vacuum at the wrong time may hold it retarded ,Vacuum for engine running is deferent ,yours is Electrically advanced
Son of a Ford said:
The distributor doesn’t have a vacuum advance. There is a port in the manifold that I can attach a gauge to get my reading and adjust to get the most vacuum.

Although now that I’ve brought it back to 5-6 degrees BTDC it wants to be at less than 15lbs of vacuum when before I was able to have it steady around 20.
Click to expand...
 
Re: 53 8BA Flathead Running Hot – Looking for Cooling Advice

He has a Mallory dual point distributor. Those have only mechanical advance. They have worked fine for me (of course, the mechanical advance has to be functional). As a matter of fact, I had "CharlieNY" build me a vacuum over mechanical SBC distributor. After I ran it for a while, I couldn't detect a difference between it and the Mallory. I sold it to a guy in Germany and put the Mallory back in because it is simpler and looks so much better.
 
Re: 53 8BA Flathead Running Hot – Looking for Cooling Advice

OK thanks

tubman said:
He has a Mallory dual point distributor. Those have only mechanical advance. They have worked fine for me (of course, the mechanical advance has to be functional). As a matter of fact, I had "CharlieNY" build me a vacuum over mechanical SBC distributor. After I ran it for a while, I couldn't detect a difference between it and the Mallory. I sold it to a guy in Germany and put the Mallory back in because it is simpler and looks so much better.
Click to expand...
 
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