5.5:1 Head or 6.0:1 Head?

I have a hard time understanding how .5 additional compression would make any discernible difference in performance or ignition timing. I believe that you know what you you’re talking about I’m just having trouble understanding it.
 
I have a hard time understanding how .5 additional compression would make any discernible difference in performance or ignition timing. I believe that you know what you you’re talking about I’m just having trouble understanding it.

It doesn't make a difference that anyone will notice. In my opinion, the 5.5 head is not worth the effort or money when there are 6.0, 6.5, and 7.0 heads out there you can buy new.

Look at the 0.5 CR in terms of PSI. It's engine dependent, but that's approximately 20 psi. That's a nominal increase in psi.
 
Thanks Hitman
I don’t know if it’s true or not but I once heard that the 6.0 head benefitted from a better combustion chamber than the 5.5 and that was where the performance performance improvement came from 5.5 vs 6.0. As I said, I don’t know if it’s true or not but I do know that the combustion chambers are quite different.
 
I have a hard time understanding how .5 additional compression would make any discernible difference in performance or ignition timing. I believe that you know what you you’re talking about I’m just having trouble understanding it.

Because I gave a really short answer, trying to answer your question without distracting with all of the engineering reasons behind the statement.

The original compression ratio head is very forgiving when it comes to spark advance. Your spark lever can provide up to 40 degrees of change and most people can find the sweet spot somewhere less than that. Around 30 is usually pretty good, but 40 will not hurt too much of anything unless you are working really hard climbing a hill, especially at low RPM.

The Ford Instruction Book advises on how to adjust the spark lever. Most drivers just "pull it all the way down and leave it there". That's not what the Instruction Book says to do, but that's what's done. And the engine will mostly survive.

When you go up to a 5.5 CR head, you actually get a nice boost in power. It meets your needs. The most power on this head is obtained closer to 26 degrees of total advance at higher RPM (like 2,000 -- less at lower RPM). 30 degrees is too much and 40 is WAY too much.

The 5.5 head is less forgiving of excess advance than the stock head. Part of the reason for this is that it is a flathead design. Later head designs (like Chrysler Hemi or other "valve in head" designs) can handle a bit more advance.

So if a novice driver runs the 5.5 head "with the lever all the way down and I never touch it" they are likely to get some serious knocking and pound out their bearings under heavy load, especially at lower RPM.

Now when you go up to the 6.0 head you get even more of the above. Peak power at high RPM is obtained closer to 22 to 24 degrees, and this head will quickly start knocking under heavy load with too much advance. Climbing a hill it is common to have to fall back to ~16 degrees. If you don't, it WILL knock. You will mess up your rods and mains. 40 degrees will actually give you less power than at 22 to 24 at 2,000 RPM. "Too much of a good thing."

The added power from the added 0.5 compression ratio is small. IMHO the downside risk of having it knock if you don't manage the spark advance properly is not worth the little extra power you get. Therefore I advise most people to get the 5.5 head, where you get the biggest bang for the buck, compared to a stock head.

And even then, I tell them that you MUST not advance the spark lever all the way down if you time the engine to exactly TDC like Henry's procedure has you do. If you want to intentionally set the initial timing some degrees after TDC, then you can do that and go a bit further with the spark lever. It's the total advance that matters. All of my numbers above are total advance (initial plus spark lever advance). Most guys experiment with the spark lever to find the sweet spot for their engine and the initial timing that they have.

One of the reasons the Model A has survived for as long as it has is that Henry's original design was very forgiving. That head might not have produced as much power as we want to see today, but the engine could survive misuse and abuse with it.

Many of us today cannot hear the engine if it knocks, due to age and due to other road, wind, and engine noises. We can be running down the road knocking like crazy and not hear it, or not recognize it, so not adjust the spark lever up. My guidance it trying to protect the drivers from themselves a bit. Nothing is perfect. If you don't want to worry about it, stick to the original CR head. It is much more forgiving.
 
I like my 6:1 and have made a simple advance limiter. I also listen to my motor and retard the timing when it needs it. I enjoy the vintage driving experience.
 
I appreciate your input Jim, it takes a long time (at least for me) to type out that much information. I understand everything you are saying an I agree with you. Here is where I am at in regards to timing: Wether you like them or not, I am using an FSI distributor. I know the total advance is 20 degrees (at 2,000 rpm) thus if i want 26 btdc I simply set initial timing at 6 degrees. I really appreciate the information regarding the actual full advance numbers I should shoot for. I just god word from the Machine shop that my 5.5 head passed the magnaflux tests so I will be re installing the 5.5 head and setting up the distributor for 26 degrees total advance. Thanks, again!
 
I have a stop on the advance lever on my spark. I'd like to see where it ends up, but I can not get the hang of getting my timing light (with correction dial) to work. I have my pulley marked, and rigged up a pointer. I must be doing something wrong.

Any ideas?

FYI: I was using a 12V battery sitting along side my A. (pickup on #1, red on 12V +, black 12V-)
 
Jim, how many 'clicks' up from the bottom of the spark lever handle, is 26 degrees?

Go about 1/4th of the way 'up' towards retarded?
 
Gene, I have an Innova Equus dial back timing light. It works fine on my later 12 volt cars but will not work on either of my Model A's. It fires the bulb with 6 volt and fires a bit brighter with a 12 volt slave battery, but the readinfgs are all over the place and the dial back does not work correctly.
I think RFI from the ignition system interferes with the electronics in the light.
I. Have another timing light with a chromed die cast body. Trying this out using a slave 12 volt battery, the casing I was holding became live with the high tension! Re reading the instructions, I saw that on a 6 volt system a slave 12 volt battery could be used but the positive should be grounded to cars positive, which I did not do. I have not tried this to see if it prevents the metal casing from shocking me and probably will not!!
The RF from a model A is enough to wipe out a rear mounted camera signal too. A friend substituted carbon resistor wires and his camera works OK. But I like the old- time brass strips that fascinate young children.
SAJ in NZ
 
I am using an FSI distributor. I know the total advance is 20 degrees (at 2,000 rpm) thus if i want 26 btdc I simply set initial timing at 6 degrees.

I’m still kind of new to these engines, but wouldn’t this much advance cause potential broken bones if you had to use the crank to start the car?
 
Gene, I have an Innova Equus dial back timing light. It works fine on my later 12 volt cars but will not work on either of my Model A's. It fires the bulb with 6 volt and fires a bit brighter with a 12 volt slave battery, but the readinfgs are all over the place and the dial back does not work correctly.
I think RFI from the ignition system interferes with the electronics in the light.
I. Have another timing light with a chromed die cast body. Trying this out using a slave 12 volt battery, the casing I was holding became live with the high tension! Re reading the instructions, I saw that on a 6 volt system a slave 12 volt battery could be used but the positive should be grounded to cars positive, which I did not do. I have not tried this to see if it prevents the metal casing from shocking me and probably will not!!
The RF from a model A is enough to wipe out a rear mounted camera signal too. A friend substituted carbon resistor wires and his camera works OK. But I like the old- time brass strips that fascinate young children.
SAJ in NZ


Interesting:

Car is 6 volt pos ground.

1. Using brand new INNOVA (5000 series ?), with DIAL and plastic case timing light and using it on a round dist cap distributor with 12 volt separate battery to run light.

Note: has copper core (real) wires. Timing light flickers and firing is flakey, On off button on light does not work.

I have not tried it with real Carbon core wires which I think that might fix this problem.

Note: both lights work fine on 1988 Cressida with carbon core wires.

I have had similar problems using FSI distributors (copper core wires) with engine "bucking" and engine slowing down while cranking. Turn off ignition and it cranks at normal speed.

2. same thing with an old (1993?) Sun Pro clone with chrome case and dial. DOES NOT shock but light is flakey and button will not work correctly.
 
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I have a stop on the advance lever on my spark. I'd like to see where it ends up, but I can not get the hang of getting my timing light (with correction dial) to work. I have my pulley marked, and rigged up a pointer. I must be doing something wrong.

Any ideas?

FYI: I was using a 12V battery sitting along side my A. (pickup on #1, red on 12V +, black 12V-)

I use the static method in this post:

https://fordbarn.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1872892&postcount=23
 
I have a hard time understanding how .5 additional compression would make any discernible difference in performance or ignition timing. I believe that you know what you you’re talking about I’m just having trouble understanding it.

The short answer for you is, it is not solely the difference in the compression ratio but the difference in the combustion chamber design.

The 5.5 head is basically the Ford A-6050-B Head that has the roof of the chamber lowered to bump the ratio from around 5.2 to 5.5. The shape of that combustion chamber is an old design and not optimum. When Larry Brumfield designed both his 5.9 head and his Super 7.1, he reshaped the triangulated area over the Piston, he softened the pointed area above the piston which helped with turbulence. When Bill Stipe later developed the 6.0, he unshrouded the intake valve areas (-which vastly boosted volumetric efficiency), and also improved the shape over the Piston even more. That is the major reason why this 6.0 Head is a much better choice over the 5.5 if overall performance is your goal. If you are just seeking a slight power adder, then the 5.5 is likely a good choice.

It should be said that the late Dennis Piranio ran some dyno tests and he & I had a discussion some 20 years ago about this. When I was in high school, I was a crew member on a Top Alcohol Dragster in Texas. During that same time, Dennis and his wife Beth campaigned a Top Alcohol Funny Car, in which he built his own very competitive race engines. I knew him from the racing scene. Later Dennis became a Model-A engine builder, so he & I had another tie. Dennis understood performance from his racing days, and he knew what to look for when building power & performance in Model-A engines. His opinion of Snyder's 6.0 Head's chamber design was high.

Most hobbyists likely don't realize the difference between the two Snyders heads, and so they focus on the compression ratio as the difference. That is not the real difference.
 
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Jim, how many 'clicks' up from the bottom of the spark lever handle, is 26 degrees?

Go about 1/4th of the way 'up' towards retarded?

No, that's probably not enough "up".

First of all, it depends on if you set the initial timing to zero (TDC) first.

If you do, from the bottom, go up 4 clicks for 24, 5 clicks for 20. It's about 4 degrees per click, guys.

You are really better off to go from the top down. Then it does not matter if your initial timing is exactly at TDC. (You may aim for that but find it is actually off a bit.)

Start halfway down, 5 clicks. Now try one more click and see if you feel more power. If you do, keep it; if not, go back up a click. That's your sweet spot.

If you kept it, go down another click and see if you feel more power. If you do, keep it; if not, go back up a click. Repeat.

At some point, very quickly, you will feel no improvement from an added click. When you do, go back 1 click.

It's very "seat of the pants". But after you do it a few times, it becomes second nature. "Try a click, then keep it or go back."

At high load (climbing a hill in High gear) at low RPM (under 30 MPH) you need to go back up to about midway (5 clicks) with a HC head; I sometimes go back even 1 more click from there. That's just for high load at low RPM. As soon as you return to normal load and over 30, you can go back down a couple of clicks to where you felt the power peak.
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I’m still kind of new to these engines, but wouldn’t this much advance cause potential broken bones if you had to use the crank to start the car?

It is a slightly higher risk than having the initial timing at TDC, but not a huge risk. The Model B engine was not timed to TDC, it started out advanced. No spark lever. People hand cranked them.

As long as you use proper hand cranking form (use a cupped hand, don't put your thumb over the top of the crank, only "pull up" on the left) and you are prepared to pull your hand UP when the engine kick back grabs the crank out of your hand, you will probably get your arm up out of the swing circle of the crank handle before it hits you and breaks your arm.

You have to be prepared for this with every pull on the crank, especially with an engine that is at normal operating temperature (was recently running). That is the engine that will kick back easily with timing advanced from TDC. People get complacent (or were never taught the correct way) and they get hurt.

This is why I push start an A that won't crank. Zero risk. Pop the clutch in 2nd gear and it will start right up in a few feet of rolling, especially if it was just running recently.
 
Interesting:

Car is 6 volt pos ground.

1. Using brand new INNOVA (5000 series ?), with DIAL and plastic case timing light and using it on a round dist cap distributor with 12 volt separate battery to run light.

Note: has copper core (real) wires. Timing light flickers and firing is flakey, On off button on light does not work.

I have not tried it with real Carbon core wires which I think that might fix this problem.

Note: both lights work fine on 1988 Cressida with carbon core wires.

I have had similar problems using FSI distributors (copper core wires) with engine "bucking" and engine slowing down while cranking. Turn off ignition and it cranks at normal speed.

2. same thing with an old (1993?) Sun Pro clone with chrome case and dial. DOES NOT shock but light is flakey and button will not work correctly.

I have an old timing light (from the 70’s) with an induction clamp for the spark signal (I’m using carbon wires with a “modern” distributor cap). I don’t know the brand, the label is long gone. I knew it was 12v, but decided to try it with the 6v Model A to see if it worked. In one direction (red to ground, black to the hot starter lug) it didn’t, but the other way it did - a bit weak, but since it’s 50 years old, I’ll give it that. (Disclaimer - I may have disremembered which way worked and which way didn’t). Saved me some bucks for a new one. So try flipping your power wires around. And try flipping your induction pickup around, although if the pickup is directional it should be marked.
 
This is why I push start an A that won't crank. Zero risk. Pop the clutch in 2nd gear and it will start right up in a few feet of rolling, especially if it was just running recently.

Yep, always seems to be at least slighty down hill one way or the other most everywhere making it easy to give the car a shove and jump in ( don't forget the key ON ) and if not an A is not too hard to get rolling on flat ground :D
 
Not arguing one way or the other, but I run an FSI unit. It was originally a 26 degree type running with a Brierly 7.0 head. Talk about knock. I talked to Jim Brierly and he told me Shawn at FSI made a 18 degree unit to go with the high comp head. When I talked to Shawn, he told me to send it back and he would modify for a nominal fee. No one told me about this 18 degree unit when I purchased and it doesn't seem to be talked around by anyone selling FSI units.
Warren
 
......I have not tried it with real Carbon core wires which I think that might fix this problem.
Pertronix has made 3 different "ignightors". All will work on the carbon core wires. The 2 & 3 require carbon wires as they has additional internal electronics that are sensitive to the interference thrown off by the solid wires. It's always puzzled me why the stock strap Model A "wires" are OK but stranded wire ones aren't.


From Pertronix site.
It's very important to verify that your spark plug wires are compatible with the ignition system, or any on-board electronics in general. Solid core wires have a copper or stainless steel conductor and generate excessive Electromagnetic Interference (EMI). This EMI can create confusion with electronics and ultimately damage them. With all PerTronix ignitions we recommend that a suppression style spark plug wire (also called carbon core) be used. The suppression wires do an excellent job of controlling the EMI with no degradation to the ignition performance.


I sure miss not having Pertronix 2 miles from home. I've been using them since the early 70s and it was nice being able to walk in and buy what you wanted and talk to the guys if you were having a problem.
 
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