4 ring pistons ?

theres gonna be lots of opinions on that one!!!, i am on it right now, just bought all the stuff for a 59 block rebuild from Mac. in my case, 59block with merc crank. my machinist called and said the block wouldnt clean up at 60, so should i sleeve two holes or go to 80? i said go to 80, and started having second thoughts right away. first, i had thought i would go ross piston with metric 3 ring pack, too late, ross standard size only goes to 60. next i called egge and they said yeah we got 80 over merc pistons, 4 ring, and said not to leave out the 4th ring. Mac also advised against it. in my case, this is not a race car, so, the extra drag/less oil consumption? is easy and cheaper. i had thought the 3 ring ross perhaps would pay me back in economy, but not gonna happen. now lets hear the rest of the opinions!!
 
I've used both and had less oil usage with the 4 rings as was original to my 59A engine. One of the three ring pistons my builder first put in blew apart and I bought Sealed-Power 4 ring ones to replace all. No problems and less oil usage since.
 
'rumble seat' (Paul Garrigan) said:
RINGS: "Ford originally came with 4 ring pistons to decrease excessive oil
consumption. Rings contribute the most friction of any engine component. Check
the drag on one piston in a cylinder using 4 rings and then again after removing 1 oil ring. Amazing!

Increased friction causes a build up of heat as well as a
reduction in hp. The added friction of the 4th ring causes an engine to run
hotter.... something we really don’t need in our flatheads. To overcome friction
requires hp..

 .... hp I’d sooner be using for fun things. Why not change and run
3 rings which have 25% less drag than 4 rings do? Makes sense to me. Recent
engines normally have only 3 rings and they last well past 100K miles."
 
Last edited:
"A picture is worth 1000 words".

Ford piston vs SBC piston :
 

Attachments

  • FHpiston.jpg
    FHpiston.jpg
    2 KB · Views: 298
  • piston.jpg
    piston.jpg
    1.7 KB · Views: 294
Yeah slugs.. Ok just need to get a feel for the difference as I can get a set of new Egge four rings here ready to go with rings for $300 AUD OR I pay $$$ 395 USD + postage at best for three rings.. and even then im not sure if that inc rings..?
 
You know you can just leave the bottom ring of off 4 ring pistons, don't you? That's what I did. I had the assembly balanced that way.
 
Kind of a tough choice, HUH? Something engine builders do everyday when modifying an engine. Something to think about. I think that since the introduction of the 3 piece oil ring, the 4th isn't necessary, I don't use them. Now, adding the forth ring might make you feel good.
 
Like Ol'Ron, I don't use all 4 rings either. Another reason to not use them is that all that added friction wears the cylinder bore more so you will get the taper sooner.
If you worry about the piston rocking in the bore (it won't) , leave out the 3rd ring, you don't need 2 oil rings with todays 3 piece rings like Ron said.. Back in the day that they had 4 rings those oil rings were 1 piece scrapers that were heavy and had a lot of tension.
I have 1 engine that is in a restored car that has 01T Ford pistons and it is doing just fine with 3 rings.
 
cas3 said:
theres gonna be lots of opinions on that one!!!, i am on it right now, just bought all the stuff for a 59 block rebuild from Mac. in my case, 59block with merc crank. my machinist called and said the block wouldnt clean up at 60, so should i sleeve two holes or go to 80? i said go to 80, and started having second thoughts right away. first, i had thought i would go ross piston with metric 3 ring pack, too late, ross standard size only goes to 60. next i called egge and they said yeah we got 80 over merc pistons, 4 ring, and said not to leave out the 4th ring. Mac also advised against it. in my case, this is not a race car, so, the extra drag/less oil consumption? is easy and cheaper. i had thought the 3 ring ross perhaps would pay me back in economy, but not gonna happen. now lets hear the rest of the opinions!!
Click to expand...

3 ring pistons work and 4 ring pistons work. Pay attention to the answers from your inquires.Neither recommend leaving a ring off with a 4 ring piston.That is sound info. What you do with your own set up is your business. I don't know of any machine shop would tell you no problem its ok leave the forth ring groove empty.I know of no ring manufacturer that would recommend not installing the 4th oil ring.Egge have been around the block a few times and this is not their first rodeo.Mac isn't a beginner either.

R
 
Ronnie said:
3 ring pistons work and 4 ring pistons work. Pay attention to the answers from your inquires.Neither recommend leaving a ring off with a 4 ring piston.That is sound info. What you do with your own set up is your business. I don't know of any machine shop would tell you no problem its ok leave the forth ring groove empty.I know of no ring manufacturer that would recommend not installing the 4th oil ring.Egge have been around the block a few times and this is not their first rodeo.Mac isn't a beginner either.

R
Click to expand...
That 4th groove has oil drain back holes in it so what is the harm in leaving out that 4th ring? It will not increase oil consumption, and that 4th ring absolutely, positively DOES NOT stabilize the piston in any way.
 
40 Deluxe said:
That 4th groove has oil drain back holes in it so what is the harm in leaving out that 4th ring? It will not increase oil consumption, and that 4th ring absolutely, positively DOES NOT stabilize the piston in any way.
Click to expand...

Why beat me up about the stability it didn't enter into my statement.Does it make you feel good??

R
 
I think on some good advice Im best to look for some original Ford three ring domed pistons, oversized. Price wise it should be a good option.. Nobody wants the lowly 221 stuff. Soooo any leads would be good ; )
 
40 Deluxe said:
Didn't intend to 'beat you up about stability". It's just that this myth persists so I used an opportunity to dispel it.
Click to expand...


That's ok i just couldn't see where i wrote about stability."LOL"
Just another fun day on the Ford Barn.

R
 
When you buy, by price. You get what someone else doesn't want. You should buy for yOUR application. When rebuilding a stock engine for a stock application, use the factory recommended parts. As for the use of the lower ring on the piston, the question is MOO, or a cows opinion. I leave them off, However I don't build many engines that have 4 ring pistons. Be nice if someone would do a dyno test of an engine with and without the bottom ring.
 
All you need to do is hand crank an engine with 3 ring pistons and then with 4 rings. The difference is dramatic.
 
flatjack9 said:
All you need to do is hand crank an engine with 3 ring pistons and then with 4 rings. The difference is dramatic.
Click to expand...

Very true even the new lo tension rings in a small block v8's have made a significant difference.This first started out as a switch to shallow groove oil rings and evolved into thinner width rings in compression as well.The mfg's were driven to this by demands to reduce fuel consumption and decreases in emissions every little thing came into play.Interesting how it came to be also with all the electronics involved as well.
As a side note you should have noticed how almost all oil filters became smaller,this was an easy way to start to reduce oil required in an oil change without doing anything but reducing volume of oil in the engine.Imagine taking 1/3 of a quart of oil out many many oil changes.That was a no brainer.

R
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top