272 6 volt starter -R&R needed?

georgeb64

georgeb64

Junior Member
Hi all. I've been driving my 55 rhd ute now which is still 6V. Its a hoot to drive and runs & handles almost as nice as my new truck. After its hots up (yeah its summer in GA) it seems progressively harder to turn over. When cold it has a little drag but when warm, it drags more so...almost like a dead battery for a second or two, then it catches & fires right up.

Brand new battery with a boatload of cold crank amps. Wiring checked with good voltages, fenderwell solenoid checks out, batt cables tight. When running it does not miss or have any sort of problem. So far it starts every time when hot, but I'm wondering if I should press my luck.

I figured it might be time for a starter or a refresh of the one there. I'd like to have the part on hand so when I'm under there getting dirty, I'll just put the new one in & get er done one time. The old bones dont take lying around on the concrete like they used to. The local NAPA guy says he has a 6v tractor starter. Does that sound right?

What is the Ford part number or the proper one for the 6V engine? I'd just as soon swap the one out, then have it rebuilt for a spare.

If this has a long shaft/bendix, it looks like a real pita to get out since all the gearshift stuff is there & dual exhaust. Hey Rick & the guys from Oz, any tips?

Thanks,
George
 
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Any V8 Y block starter is hard to remove because they are heavy and very long. I like to get the top bolt out first, then the side, then the bottom. You will have to turn the front wheels one way or the other to get tie rod clearance. Move the loose starter toward the front, up to point the drive end down, then it will wiggle out if you don't drop it in your face. If you can take it to a local rebuilder, he can freshen it so it should last your life time. Remember the heavy part? The only thing you need to be aware of is the big spring on the drive. Several years ago, the system was flooded with springs wound the wrong dirrection. There are newer drives out there now that are enclosed. If it's right, you wont need a spare.
 
georgeb64 said:
What is the Ford part number or the proper one for the 6V engine? I'd just as soon swap the one out, then have it rebuilt for a spare.
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Hi George,
Welcome to the Barn, and great car!
The part number is 11002, you'll need to specify the year to make sure you get a 6V.
See a diagram on this link

For parts try these sites, you can download catalogs from them for reference.
http://www.earlyford.com/
http://www.concoursparts.com/

If the car starts without a need for excessive cranking, you might want to just try cleaning it up and lubing it first. When I first got my '55, (292 w/ 6V) I thought it seemed sluggish when starting up, even when warm (ie. slow ... like the battery was low), but it always fires up without prolonged cranking. I was told my starter was rebuilt about 5 years ago, so I've just assumed that is the way 6V starter's work.
 
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Hey guys, thanks very much for the great info. Very helpful & much appreciated.

Smitchy, you got me thinking. It is only a slight pause then it cranks right over without any excessive cranking or acting like its 'dead' or locked up. It just drags enough to make me think not everything is 100%...but whats there might outlast me just the way it is. My experience with 55 Fords in the last 25 years is one...this one. Before that I did quite a bit with them but having to re-learn stuff about the peculiar things that are Ford, not GM:eek:

I'll do a little rootin around under there & see what there.

Thanks again,

George
 
You can buy kits and redo the busings and brushes and get much more life out of it. It won't be "fully" rebuilt but better than most.
It gets expensive when you have to rewrap windings and insulation so try not to get into that.
They are great little starters. I always used one with my 12 volt system. Spun my hi compression yblock nice and quick, and heavier wound than a 12 volt.
 
Without doubt the hardest job on a RHD yblock car is removing the starter, especially if it is a manual transmission.
You have to remove the clutch mechanism which is bolted onto the engine mount, remove the clutch pushrod and then undo the three starter mounting bolts. Of course disconnect the battery before you begin. To do this I use a long 3/8" drie extension for the 9/16" headed bolt which is behind the starter against the engine block. These starters do not normally spin the engine quickly. Just make sure all your connections are clean and tight and that you have a suitably sized battery to starter motor cable.
The starter is areal squeeze to get out even when you have removed all clutch mechanism and you have to drop the front of the starter and ma oeuvre it out. Not a fun job and one that will improve your profane vocabulary. Make sure there are no little ones around.
Good luck!
 
make sure you have plenty of clean heavy duty ground cables, batt to engine, engine to one starter bolt, engine to frame. do not put batt ground to an exhaust manifold bolt, heat kills the ground, to much resistance
 
Good stuff Rick & Ford3.

I have cleaned all the cable & wire ends at the solenoid, coil, gen, volt reg and such. Used a wire brush on the dremel until all surfaces clean & shiny. Batt cable to Pos ground is new with new bolt & nut & it is to the cyl head with new bolt & washer there. New strap from intake manifold to firewall also.

Will get underneath for the last bit this weekend & check for the other ground straps you mention on starter bolt etc to make sure they are in place. Hopefully all the cleaning & ground checking will take care of the drag...if not...

Rick intuitively I expected your response to be what it was on removal...there's a whole lot of stuff on the right side with shift mechanism, steering column & other assorted things. Not to mention its a pretty weighty item with a long shaft that even limits movability further. Jeez Louise, I reckon when I head under there, besides tools, I better pack a lunch, a pint of white lightning, and a prayer book. :D

Thanks folks,
George
 
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Taking it out is tough.
Just remember-you have have to reinstall it. AAhhgg!
Use a short stud in one hole to help hang it, and good luck.
 
Also, concerning battery cables, they can corrode underneath the insulation, and cause starting/hot starting issues that will drive person nuts. I had this issue on a 6.9 Diesel recently, with cables that looked fine until I stripped some insulation from them, and discovered the fungus garden from you-know-where underneath. After replacing them it cranked over fast enough I didn't have to wait on the glow plugs, down to around 50 Degrees F. Sorry for drifting off-topic, but thought this may be of help to someone out there.
 
s55mercury makes a good point. When I had my 6v it was difficult to find good 6v cables. Probly still is, although I know you can order them from specialty parts houses. You cannot get by with what they sell over the counter at your local parts store in most cases. I've made them up with ordered fittings and heavy gauge copper welding cable.
 
I put up with the same problem for several years till I finally decided to get a rebuilt starter from Concourse Parts in Nevada. Never a problem since. These old starters will fool ya. If you get one out and set it on the ground, hook up battery cables to it, they'll spin like a top, but installed in the engine won't turn worth a hoot.
I don't have any complaints about the job of starter removal and installation though, I am thin and wiry. It helps to have a long attachment on your socket for that top bolt. Do that one last. Get your other two started first. Wiggle the starter a little to gat that last bolt on the top started in. Your all set.
 
Are your cables a 6v type or do they look like the kind you would find in a 12v vehicle? 6v cables are a larger diameter type. The problems sound like you have the lighter 12 volt cables which will seem like the starter is dragging as you need more current to turn a 6v starter especially when hot.
 
I agree with several of the guys above and you hit on it too. Resistance in old wires that appear to be in great shape. "O" guage welding cables P and N on batt and from solenoid to starter are almost mandatory. Don't use the cheap bolt-on terminals that you get anywhere. Have an automotive electrical shop to make them up using the proper crimp and solder. You could have a starter issue, but doesn't really sound like it and you need good cables anyway. I would change the cables first, especially since you have a right drive car that will require some disassembly to get that starter out.

Let us know how it comes out.
 
Those are good points. thanks. I'll check but I would guess offhand they are 4 but possibly 2 AWG. They appear to be brand new with correct ends & soldered. I did clean any minor corrosion, but never verified size.

MY other 6V car uses a braided type ground strap, approx 1" wide...would that work also for the pos ground here?

Thanks,George
 
Use the heavy braided straps for your ground connections. Make sure all grounding surfaces are clean and free of paint. Use 2 AWG cables from battery to solenoid and to starter. Buy the cable in bulk and get some good copper lugs and some heat shrink tubing and crimp on battery cable ends and crimp on the ends. Some part stores will rent you a portable crimper. I have a crimper that you hit with a hammer and it works very well.
 
1" ground strap is good.

I had a problem very similar to what you describe. Took it to a local old school auto electrical shop. He tested my system under starting load and found that, while the battery was in excellent condition and fully charged, it was producing 4.2 V under load at the starter. Because the cables looked to be in excellent condition also, and because I had been through all the grounding issues and cleaning of connections, I was reluctant to change out the cables. I did however and this solved all of my issues. The tight 312 spins like it was on 12 volts. I know this is an antecdotal story, but then aren't they all?

I highly recommend "ought" guage multi-strand copper welding cable for any 6V system that is trying to spin a V-8; especially if it is relatively new and tight. Again, this is a good course of action whether the starter turns out to be the culprit or not and just may save you a lot of work and expense in the long run.
 
Hi George,

I'm curious to hear if the result of your cleaning the connectors improved the starter performance.

I've been following this post and did a little test on my '55 over the weekend. I cleaned all connections, and noticed a slight improvement, but still sluggish. Then I added an additional 0 gauge jumper cable between the battery and the block, and noticed a big improvement in the cranking of the starter. So the cables really do make a difference.

Keep us posted on your results.
 
Hi guys, sorry for not updating y'all. Both of my girls were home, and they are both Army parachutists...so this weekend I went parachute jumping again (64 yrs old:eek:) and at 14K ft had another wonderful experience...but landed like a sack of poop this time...so been at the chiropractic for a few days.:mad: Couldn't let the kids think there's no juice left in the old man.

To the Ford: The cables are much larger than I thought and measured to 2/0 so that is all good. Did find the cable a little loose at the starter. Improved quit a bit but I plan to install the grounds that were recommended. I would think that will push it over the top.

Will let you know when I quit walking like gorilla man and can get back under the car.

Cheers,
George
 
Laughing my butt off. Thanks for a humorous start to the day.

georgeb64 said:
Hi guys, sorry for not updating y'all. Both of my girls were home, and they are both Army parachutists...so this weekend I went parachute jumping again (64 yrs old:eek:) and at 14K ft had another wonderful experience...but landed like a sack of poop this time...so been at the chiropractic for a few days.:mad: Couldn't let the kids think there's no juice left in the old man.

To the Ford: The cables are much larger than I thought and measured to 2/0 so that is all good. Did find the cable a little loose at the starter. Improved quit a bit but I plan to install the grounds that were recommended. I would think that will push it over the top.

Will let you know when I quit walking like gorilla man and can get back under the car.

Cheers,
George
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