1966 289 no start

[cohammer60]

Had 66 mustang with 289 sitting outside garage a few days on hill . Gas ran down into engine thru carburetor and flooded whole engine . Drained engine replaced oil but now no start, check all fire,timing, and took valve covers off and looks like water in engine. Never seen anything like this what has happened just by engine flooding with gas ?

 

[craig]

I don't think the gas flooding has anything to do with water in the oil. Because it is all over the top end, I'd guess its run like that for a while. Have you pulled the spark plugs to see if they are fouled?

 

[dmsfrr]

To flood the engine from the gas tank thru the carburetor wouldn't it have to go past the float bowl valves that should shut off when full? Is the hill that steep the tank was higher than the carb?

Is there an oem style mechanical fuel pump on the engine? If the pump diaphragm is bad the fuel could leak into the block that way, and the angle of the car wouldn't have to be as steep.
If the fuel pump is bad, no fuel pressure would make it hard to start.

 

[cohammer60]

Plugs look bad changing them also , jacked front end of car up and drained oil so I thought all was out of engine. It was running just fine just can’t figure out all these issues at once . Going to remove oil pan and fuel pump and go from there . Haven’t took out pump yet but it is the small mechanical type in side of engine.

 

[KULTULZ]

To flood the engine from the gas tank thru the carburetor wouldn't it have to go past the float bowl valves that should shut off when full? Is the hill that steep the tank was higher than the carb?

Is there an oem style mechanical fuel pump on the engine? If the pump diaphragm is bad the fuel could leak into the block that way, and the angle of the car wouldn't have to be as steep.
If the fuel pump is bad, no fuel pressure would make it hard to start.

What he said ...

Fuel pressure? State of tune? The milky oil is likely from lack of crankcase ventilation or an internal coolant leak. Was there a gasoline smell in the oil while draining?

There are mechanical check valves in the mechanical fuel pump that would prohibit gravity fed fuel passage if they are functioning correctly. If the fuel did get past the pump valves, the needle and seat should have stopped it unless the pressure overwhelmed the needle.That could lead to filling the cylinders and possible hydro-lock before leaking past the rings.

The plugs are as a result of non-service, fuel mixture, or bad rings/valve seals. Is the plug tip black wet or dry?

 

[cohammer60]

Plug tip was wet and there was smell of gas in oil , when I took top off carburetor bowl and lifted out needle from seat gas shot up out of carburetor as if incoming gas line had more pressure than usual to me . What is cure for hydro lock ? Do not know complete history of engine but has been in car for all 56 years and looks like all cork gasket and no oil leaks or burning of oil .

 

[darrell]

put in a set of plugs and your engine should start if its getting fire.as far as gas squirting from the carb your fuel pump isnt going to suddenly increase pressure

 

[rotorwrench]

Fuel just dilutes the oil but color doesn't change. Coolant or water getting in the oil is what makes a milk shake color.

Always do easiest thing first when troubleshooting. Check for spark is an easy check. If it gets fire on one then it will at least fire on that one. Compression test is a bit more difficult but mostly just because there are 8-cylinders to check. A blown head gasket may not show up but it might. A very clean spark plug can indicate coolant in a cylinder.

The tank being low on the body requires a pump to get the gas up to the carb. It won't go uphill unless the rear is up on a very steep hill. I'd generally check for fuel pump pressure before doing anything with the carb. The system will hold pump pressure for a time but it will eventually bleed off and likely sooner than later. Flooding of fuel through the carb can be due to a blown power valve or a float that has a pin hole in it and won't float anymore. Internal leaks aren't all that common on stock Ford 2100 or 4100 type carbs or even Holley types for that matter.

 

[KULTULZ]

Plug tip was wet and there was smell of gas in oil ,

Did the plug smell heavily of gas or wet with oil? You are describing the old oil as drained?

...when I took top off carburetor bowl and lifted out needle from seat gas shot up out of carburetor as if incoming gas line had more pressure than usual to me .

That will be normal as you had been cranking the engine, right? The pressure was still high as the pump had not bled down yet.

What is cure for hydro lock ?

Well, that depends on the severity. Sometimes it will stop an engine and sometimes it will destroy an engine. If you think you have fuel and/or coolant in the cylinder(s), you remove the plug(s) and crank it to expel the fluid. Then start and diagnose.

Do not know complete history of engine but has been in car for all 56 years and looks like all cork gasket and no oil leaks or burning of oil .

It looks like it needs some loving care. Start with a fresh set of plugs as suggested. Ain't no way the one you showed will fire, specially if you still have points.

Whatever you do, do not lose that ENGINE ID TAG. They are invaluable.

 

[dmsfrr]

Had 66 mustang with 289 sitting outside garage a few days on hill . ...

... If the fuel did get past the pump valves, the needle and seat should have stopped it unless the pressure overwhelmed the needle....

... when I took top off carburetor bowl and lifted out needle from seat gas shot up out of carburetor as if incoming gas line had more pressure than usual to me ...

If there was excess fuel pressure created while the car was parked outside in the sun, checking the vent on the fuel tank /gas cap would be a good thing to do.

 

[cohammer60]

Thanks for replies I will keep plugs out and try to expel any fluids and go from there with new plugs for sure, haven’t changed in 7 years of not much driving just starting and going around block .

 

[darrell]

thats why you see the milky foam in your engine to much stop and go driving.you engine doesnt get hot enough.

 

[Crankster]

I've heard that fuel soaked spark plugs if bad enough, are sometimes permanently damaged, or near enough anyway. Haven't had this problem but I can believe it.

I'd probably drain the oil thoroughly, and at some point in the operation pull all the spark plugs out and spin the engine over with the starter for several seconds just to make sure all the gasoline is expelled from cylinders. As you know, fluids are not compressible. A fresh set of spark plugs and I bet you're back in business.

 

[KULTULZ]

If there was excess fuel pressure created while the car was parked outside in the sun, checking the vent on the fuel tank /gas cap would be a good thing to do.

That's a good point.

Also, if the car is never driven, I would hate to see the condition of the tank inside ...

What the main problem is (IMO) is the car is never driven and brought up to operating temperatures.

 

[cohammer60]

Yes I am guilty of not getting it up to operating temperature but once a month if that from just moving in and out of garage. Bet I won’t do that again if i ever get it going.

 

[cohammer60]

Just an update on my ongoing problem with not starting 66 289 engine. After taking off oil pan cleaned and installed new oil pump , new fuel pump , fuel lines and filter and replaced oil and primed by using drill on distributor shaft and watching oil come out rods onto lifters . Put engine 6 deg BTC and replaced distributor , put on valve covers , checked for spark and placed clean carburetor on intake . Just like before when I turn engine over gas blows out both vent tubes on carb every time mechanical pump engages. I have started many old engine after they sat for a while but have never had such as this what am I missing?

 

[craig]

With the top of the carb off, disable the ignition system so there is no spark. Then have someone crank the engine so you can watch where the gas is going. My guess is it's leaking past the needle and seat because it's damaged or got a chunk of debri stuck in it, or the float is heavy or somehow way out of adjustment. Make sure the retainer wire on the float rod is attached to the groove in the brass needle seat. Without that, the float won't close the needle

 

[darrell]

how many miles on 289.you either have the timing of or it jumped the chain or a pushrod is of

 

[cohammer60]

160,000 but it probably sat for 15 years before I got it 15 years ago and started it back up

 

[KULTULZ]

Craig has the correct diagnostic procedure. The top of the carb is easy to remove and while cranking (IGN disabled), watch the needle/seat.

The FORD 2100 is easy to work on. In fact the final float setting is performed while the top is off the carb.