Reliability

A

armchair67

Senior Member
I'm sure this has been covered here at some point, but I'm new here and still learning the site! Buying my first model A this weekend and it will be my daily driver. Any advice on making this car-or keeping it-reliable? My plumbing service shop puts 15-20,000 miles per year on forty year old vw buses with very little repairs needed during that time, so I'm hoping to see the same out of the A which will cover about half that distance annually.

Is there a real need to worry -other than speed-about going on a 100 mike trip? 300? 500?

Is starting in the winter a challenge? I know there was the Haggery Insurance guy that daily drove his and posted a video of it starting easily at 15 degrees out. But it got to fifteen below here for some time here this past winter and that's a real big difference!

Any advice is appreciated!
 
Where are you located? If they use salt on the roads where you are it will rust real quick unless you have everything underneath painted real well. Expect all of the internal brake parts to rust as well as sheet metal, frame etc.
 
armchair67 said:
I'm sure this has been covered here at some point, but I'm new here and still learning the site! Buying my first model A this weekend and it will be my daily driver. Any advice on making this car-or keeping it-reliable? Get some of the more popular Model A/AA books out there such as the Instruction Manual and read and get to understand your car. That is what you do when you buy a new car. Maintence is the number one (#1) responsibility of owning a Model A/AA Ford...If it is not maintained in a correct manor, then it is not road worthy and in this day and age you sure want it roadworthy. #2 is understand the "Rules of the Road" and hopefully others will to...Most people do not know what or how to read Left, Right, and Slow Down hand signals...With this in mind, you have to have eyes on all four sides of your head! My plumbing service shop puts 15-20,000 miles per year on forty year old vw buses with very little repairs needed during that time, so I'm hoping to see the same out of the A which will cover about half that distance annually.

Is there a real need to worry -other than speed-about going on a 100 mike trip? 300? 500? The only time to worry is when you do not know your Model A/AA. Those of us who go on these long drives have probably gone over their car with a fine tooth comb before ever attempting such a drive.

Join a local Model A/AA club and get to know the members, get to know the car that you are buying and ask questions about the car to the seller.

HOWEVER...things DO HAPPEN when you least expect it but don't let that detour your mind just make sure the car is safe and you understand it and with that you can go for miles and miles and miles and........

Is starting in the winter a challenge? Not really, just make sure you have antifreeze in the engine, battery charged and start it once in a while. I know there was the Haggery Insurance guy that daily drove his and posted a video of it starting easily at 15 degrees out. But it got to fifteen below here for some time here this past winter and that's a real big difference!

A lot of people just do not have the patience for these old cars and are just afarid of them (or they can not afford them). Treat them right and they will treat you right!

Pluck

Any advice is appreciated!
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See above...

Pluck
 
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Welcome Armchair. The Model A is very reliable for daily driving. Unfortunately, modern society is not. Once you go through everything and get it back to Ford spec. you don't have to do it again. You will just have the basic maintenance like lubing and oiling. If you keep up on that you will be just fine. I just drove from Oakland, Ca to Tacoma, WA for our national meet and did just fine in Barbara (my car's name).

The big thing is go through it very methodically and get things done right-the first time. The repo parts are not the best and sometimes cause more problems down the road so do not be in a big hurry to discard the original stuff. Most of it can be rebuilt and is better than the stuff made today. Where you located? Like was mentioned, salt will kill these cars fast. As far as starting in -15 degree weather-go for it. The most you will have to do is shoot her with a bit of starting spray and then let her warm up.

Mike
 
Ask Mark Maron. He drives his Model A every day for the last few years and he lives in Chicago.

I drive my Model A maybe 2500 miles per year now, but do take one or two long trips in it. I'm sort of a Model A noob myself, but do know this much- find a club or two near you and get to know the guys or gals that really know Model As inside and out. Avoid the people that are all into playing "dress up" and hang out with the ones that do the majority of the work on the cars. Even if your Model A isn't a hobby, the clubs are still worth your time.

After really going through the Model A and fixing everything the right way (especially brakes and steering), it will be surprisingly reliable. Mine has never left us stranded. Always gets us home. The only trouble I ever had was de to the "modern" points setup. After switching to the original style points (Thanks for the advice of Tom Wessenberg), it has never missed a beat.
 
Take some time to read about the history of the car. How it was made and how it was driven when it was just a car.

The car was designed by Ford to run 60 MPH. You will find stories from the mid 1930's of oil companies doing reliability runs and other people using one to drive around the country. The reliablity story more recently talked about going from AZ to CA through some areas with no real roads. The average trip speed was just over 60 MPH, so they had to be cruising MUCH faster as this included stops. Imagine being in the back seat of a tudor going down a mountain with a bumpy road.

At these speeds you expected to get 50,000 to 80,000 miles on an engine. You also would expect in the low twenties for fuel mileage.

What you need to understand is how the A was built. In a nutshell Ford built the car out of specail steels using precision manufacturing. He churned out millions of parts some to .0005" accuracy all day long. To bring the Model A back to factory precision is not cheap or easy. It is like trying to build a race car as you must pay a lot of attention to details.

You will find lots of people attempts to 'modernize' the A only to introduce issues in ways you would not expect. You will find those who properly restore back to factory have extremely reliable cars. They drive where they want and as fast as they want and only really make sure it is properly lubricated in-between.

A Model A restored back to Ford factory specs (not Judging Standard correct) would be a car that you could depend on to drive everyday and just as reliable as the 2014 car you might have in your driveway. The big difference from the new car is if you have a problem you are likely to be able to drive your A home. The new car is going to need a tow.

Keep in mind the A is NOT a fragile car. It will go off road, it does jumps nicely. It can go around stuck 4 wheel drive trucks. You be beat the crap out of it and expect it to just go the next time out. It big limitations are the small HP engine and the thin tires (for modern roads). That limits your acceleration and your stopping distances. It even survives accidents fairly well based on what has been posted, seat belts do make a difference!
 
As mentioned the Model A is a very reliable car. If it were a piece of crap so many would not have survived the WWII scrape drives.

Also as mentioned you need to keep up on the routine maintenance.

Kevin in NJ has hit it on the head about "upgrades". Give the car a chance before you do any changes.
 
Don't give in to peer pressure to use the so called modern V8 points and condenser. Original style points and the short proof A&L condenser are the most dependable way to go. The original style points are easy to adjust and I have been using the same points set in my 31 tudor for over 14 years. A good low cost spark plug that runs clean at all speeds is the Champion W18 .
 
Hey armchair,
Where are you located , it makes a difference if considering driving a model a every day of the year, IMO.
For instance, if you live in rainy /ice and snow and back road vs freeway turnpike roads ..would make me think differently on how often and how long use.
And, todays drivers are NOT traveling at any model a speeds and do NOT consider the first driving rule....don't drive faster than conditions dictate.

Mechanical brakes and model a original tires (tall/skinny) do not lend well to gripping safely / evenly in wet freezing temps. A lot of 'stuff' has to be considered, not the least of which is SPEED to get from point A to B these days.
One thing that I'd do and recommend getting would be an engine oil pre-heating system, as you are mentioning some very cold weather. Another serious need , IMO, in such cold, would be a heated enclosed garage...and maybe a heater accessory in the A..besides comfort , heater would / could provide some type of windshield clearing (moisture/rain) for safety. Make sure that you have a good operating windshield wiper. Whatever you do ...always do it with safety as a first concern..then you will not be caught surprised/shocked by adverse happenings, but will be ready mentally ,eh :)
 
I have driven for more miles in a year than you are looking at. There are some "improvements" that I recommend to make the car more reliable but you won't have a problem with driving that much. A couple of years ago we did over 7,000 miles in about six weeks on one of our Summer Tours. Send me a PM if you would like to know the modifications we recommend for a distance driver.
 
Well you seem to be getting the info you wanted, now a question for you. You said VW buses in your plumbing service shop? Did I read that correct? We use FORD service vans in my plumbing service shop. Where are you located? As you can see I'm in Tulsa OK.
Welcome fellow plumber and A'er.
 
First of all I love the Model A and I have several of them. Having said that I would not expect an 85 year old car to meet the standards required for your business interests. And if it does break done repair stations are few and far between. Your extended trips of 300 miles will likely involve freeway travel which is always a risk. To drive them daily for fun is one thing but to use them as a service vehicle is quite another ! Likely contrary to the opinion of others, I believe it is a mistake to buy the A as a service truck !
Just my opinion.
Wayne
 
Armchair, I drive my 31 tudor almost daily. Average miles per month 1500 before I retired. 2 years ago retired and now only about 1000 per month. The more you drive it the better they run, I also had up-grades you can see in my avatar info . have fun modelAtony tony white Lafayette, LA
 
C26Pinelake said:
First of all I love the Model A and I have several of them. Having said that I would not expect an 85 year old car to meet the standards required for your business interests. And if it does break done repair stations are few and far between. Your extended trips of 300 miles will likely involve freeway travel which is always a risk. To drive them daily for fun is one thing but to use them as a service vehicle is quite another ! Likely contrary to the opinion of others, I believe it is a mistake to buy the A as a service truck !
Just my opinion.
Wayne
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I've got to agree with Wayne. I've used model A's as a daily driver ,mostly for fun and to prove to the naysayers that I could. On the other hand I've got a lifetime experience with model A's and a large collection of parts. Annything can happen with an 85 year old vehicle and thats with anything about it or any part. Besides being not practical it would also be uncomfortable day after day on long trips in inclimate weather.
 
Mike V. Florida said:
One more thing, I know there are several of you that use your as a daily driver or damn near close to that. Please chine in.
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Here is a picture of my 1930 Coupe. Notice the regular plates. I drove it every chance I got which is IMHO the best thing for it. It is the "garage queens" that only get started a few times a year that run into all kinds of problems.

Ok truthfully my "A" was primarily my summer old ford. The next picture is of my winter old ford with its regular plates and snow tires on. It was very good in the snow!, and its Southwind heater kept it toasty warm. :D (Yes I am still alive and have all my skin!. The newspapers of the 1930s were not filled with stories of people turned into human torches by their Southwind heaters. Mine was set up properly and worked very well.) I never thought anything about it. I just used my old fords as they were intended, and they were very reliable.

Of course this was way back when I was young and adventurous. We'll see how it goes now that I am getting back into the hobby after raising two kids. I expect I'll get just as comfortable driving my 1929 Tudor now as I was driving my 1930 Coupe way back when.

How far back was "when"? Well here is a hint. One of my favorite trips was when I took my Coupe to see "The Sting". The audience was quite surprised when, as we filed out, I hopped into my 1930 Coupe and drove off!:)
 

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Driving 300 to 500 mile trips at sometimes temperatures below zero is a lot different than an around town and back and forth to work daily driver. Not to mention that it is his first model A. There are simply all kind of little things that can and will go wrong with an 85 year old car that a first time model A owner will have no idea how to handle. It most likely won't always be easy to find a person knowledgeable or willing to work on a broke down model A. No matter how well it has been restored it is still made up of 80 something year old parts. An every day fun driver and what he has in mind are totaly different.
 
I have quite a few old cars and none of them is a show car or garage queen. My daily driver is my 1962 Humpback Volvo with God knows how many miles on it and it's dead reliable, like an old Volkswagen, but with 90 horses under the bonnet as peppy as a contemporary Porsche. I jump in it every morning and drive to work, about 3 miles each way. During my daily coffee break, I usually ride my 1960 Lambretta motor scooter, and when it's time to go home, it's Volvo time again. The Swede's factory black paint is almost entirely burned off, the primer's showing through, and it's dusty as hell. Impossible to duplicate.

http://www.californiaclassix.com/Bernard/PV544-1.html

Usually on weekends, not every weekend, but most, I take my Model A home and use it as a normal form of transportation. I drive it to get stuff from Lowe's, do my shopping at Trader Joe's, and just have fun puttering around town, smiling, waving.

I can do all of this in a very relaxed fashion because we have 350 days of blue skies per year, usually not a cloud in sight, no rain, no cold, no heat. It's between 60-something and low 80s all year round, so I don't need a heater, don't need air conditioning, don't need a top on my car. I do not take my Model A on the freeway though, despite the fact that I have an overdrive installed, and if it were to get really cold, I don't think I would want to drive a car without a working heater. But that's just me, an old bloke who enjoys the good life and watches non-stop re-runs of The Waltons on TV.

I know it's possible to drive a Model A like it's been done in the 1930s, year round, even in the snow, but I don't know why somebody would want to do that in 2014.
 
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I am not looking to use the A as a service truck. I have three vw type 2s that do a fantastic job of that along with four modern vans. The A is replacing my CTS-V. Meaning getting back and forth to my shop on days I don't bike, running errands, meeting friend, taking my kids to swim class etc etc.
 
@ Russell-good to see another plumber here also. I am in Chicago, IL. Yes, we do indeed use several VW Buses in our fleet. Three of our seven vans. Each sees 15-20,000 miles per year. Very reliable, durable trucks. I chose later model, 73-up, as they are much improved over earlier models for actual use. 73-up have a very tough crumple zone designed into the front body and frame for crash protection. While they look similar to 68-71 models, behind the sheet metal it's a different story. They also came with a more powerful and reliable engine that is referred to as a Type 4 engine, two of which are fuel injected from the factory. They also came with very good power disc brakes. I have upgraded the heat and added a/c, as well as painted them to match our other vans (although our 73 has now been in service with us longer than all but one other van-a 2004 Sprinter-in our fleet). We get a ton of business from them and they work well parking in the city. My only issue really is that employees can be really hard on vehicles they do not own, so when one comes back with a scratch or ding, it really makes me cringe!
 
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