Widow Maker Rims

brien

brien

Member
I have 4 widowmaker 17" rims on my newly restored 1951 F-3.:( They are all in good shape but "Stu" has me paranoid about running down the road on them. I only plan to go to local shows, cruuise nights, and fairs, but I am still concerned one could blow off and cause an accident...

I have found four rims and tires for replacement @ Town Fair Tire in CT. Cost is $1600 for rims & tires, mounted, balanced, etc.:rolleyes:..Anyone think this is too much? Has anyone replaced their "widow makers" and, if so, how did you make out?

Also, after I replace these four rims, do they have any value to collectors, and if so, about how much would they be worth? They are in very good condition. In fact one of the four was leaking air, and my tire guy couldn't split the rim, although he was trying very hard, so I told him to forget it before it killed him...

Any thoughts here?
 
I have cut them in half and thrown them in the scrap metal bin. Probally the most dangerous wheel ever made. Another thread on here, or the Hamb, listed a good replacement for your wheel, yesterday or day before. It was a later model ford truck
wheel, with the inside hubs that looked original.

Bruce

Works good
Lasts long time
 
Seth Swoboda said:
Could you explain to me what a "widow maker rim" is? I have never heard of that before. Just wondering. Thanks.
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Seth,Do a ford barn search "widow maker rims"You will get a full explanation along with pictures.I did and found it very informative. Phil
 
brien said:
I have 4 widowmaker 17" rims on my newly restored 1951 F-3.:( They are all in good shape but "Stu" has me paranoid about running down the road on them. I only plan to go to local shows, cruuise nights, and fairs, but I am still concerned one could blow off and cause an accident...

I have found four rims and tires for replacement @ Town Fair Tire in CT. Cost is $1600 for rims & tires, mounted, balanced, etc.:rolleyes:..Anyone think this is too much? Has anyone replaced their "widow makers" and, if so, how did you make out?

Also, after I replace these four rims, do they have any value to collectors, and if so, about how much would they be worth? They are in very good condition. In fact one of the four was leaking air, and my tire guy couldn't split the rim, although he was trying very hard, so I told him to forget it before it killed him...

Any thoughts here?
Click to expand...

It's not my place, nor intent, to make anyone paranoid about "widow maker" rims. My job is to help guys find alternatives to their "Firestone RH-5°" rims. I'm the one with the library of old catalogs and literature, plus have test fitted most alternatives on my own trucks so that I know what will work. That said, I do generally suggest that new owners of these trucks become familiar with these wheels by doing themselves a Google search on them. If you elect to keep them in service, and have clearly found a shop still willing to work on them, that's your business.

Probably not a lot of guys on the Ford Barn are exposed to these wheels because this is primarily a car site. And most older bigger model trucks that are discussed here won't have widow makers. It's the 1948 and later F-3 and bigger models that have them to deal with. In the case of F-3s, being a single rear wheel vehicle, a wheel failure (should it occur) will result in the "side ring" blowing in toward the truck rather that out into traffic. It's the bigger dual rear wheel models that are at risk of that.

Forgive me but I forget if you are a person that I've explained the alternative wheel solutions to. If not I'd be happy to do so. Stu
 
Attached is a photo of a conversion from a 17" locking ring OEM style rim with a bias ply 17" Firestone tire to a 16" radial style rim with a 16" Michelin radial tire. The spare is the OEM 17" locking ring rim with Firestone tire. To do the conversion we machined out the center section of an OEM 17" rim and welded it to a radial rim. Doing so preserved the use of the OEM lug pattern and the OEM hubcaps. It also made for a whole lot better ride. The cost of changing over the rim was $175.00/each and the Michelin truck tire cost $200.00 so based on that I'd say that you're getting a fair deal on the replacement rims and tires.

Regarding your OEM rims are they the "split rim" style or the "locking ring" style? The locking ring style has gotten a bad rap often getting lumped into the widowmaker category. Our truck tire vendor has the capability to change and service the locking ring style of rim so if your rim is that style try a truck tire service center. I kept my OEM locking ring rims to be used at judged events. Properly maintained they are no more dangerous than a conventional rim.
 

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No, your truck looks to be a '47 or earlier tonner that has the locking ring rims. They are named "Firestone RH", which can be real confusing to guys because the name is so similar to the "RH-5°" style on F-3s that split down the middle of the rim. Below are links to pictures of the "RH-5°".

f-3rim.jpg


Budd1949FirestoneRH5degree.jpg
 
truckdog62563 said:
It's not my place, nor intent, to make anyone paranoid about "widow maker" rims. My job is to help guys find alternatives to their "Firestone RH-5°" rims. I'm the one with the library of old catalogs and literature, plus have test fitted most alternatives on my own trucks so that I know what will work. That said, I do generally suggest that new owners of these trucks become familiar with these wheels by doing themselves a Google search on them. If you elect to keep them in service, and have clearly found a shop still willing to work on them, that's your business.

Probably not a lot of guys on the Ford Barn are exposed to these wheels because this is primarily a car site. And most older bigger model trucks that are discussed here won't have widow makers. It's the 1948 and later F-3 and bigger models that have them to deal with. In the case of F-3s, being a single rear wheel vehicle, a wheel failure (should it occur) will result in the "side ring" blowing in toward the truck rather that out into traffic. It's the bigger dual rear wheel models that are at risk of that.

Forgive me but I forget if you are a person that I've explained the alternative wheel solutions to. If not I'd be happy to do so. Stu
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Hi Stu;

No I am new here. I have had this truck in a "frame off" restoration for about 8 years now. I read your information and just first went "WOW"! Then I sighed, "oh well" another major investment into the truck. But I don't cut costs for safety. It was your informative writings that convinced me to replace these rims. Even though my original "widowmakers" are in very good shape, I don't want the liability of causing an accident out on the road.

I didn't want to spend a lot of time in a long extended search for replacements so I ordered 4 new Craegar Soft 8 rims w/ 8 lug matchup and a 5" center opening. They should be in next week and if they don't fit properly, I can return them.

I still retain one 17.5" one pc rim w/ a Firestone tire for a spare. The other four I will like put up for sale to anyone who cares to buy them for "original equipment." I will certainly disclose all of the information you have supplied to the public regarding these rims. It is guys lioke you who are of great service to not only the integrity of the hobby, but also to the safety as well. Many thanks

Brien

 
According to the 49-51Ford Truck Shop Manual, a 3-piece rim (locking ring) was available on F7 and F8 and were 20". F2 as having a drop center rim or a semi-drop center rim- 16". The F3 as having a 2- piece rim- 17".
 

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Right, the F-2s used a 16" drop center wheel/rim that is one of the more perfect solutions for F-3 owners, IF the truck is a late '51 or '52 that has the 12" Bendix rear brakes. It's the '48 to early '51 guys that can't simply make this switch because the early trucks have 14" rear drums that won't clear the 16" wheels.

I'm not familiar with the Craegar wheels you mention. Assuming they are a generic custom wheel, I doubt that you'll be able to use your stock hub caps with them.....if that is a concern to you. That spare 17.5" wheel/tire, on the other hand, is also one of the better replacement options, will clear those early 14" drums, and will accept your hub caps. Both the 16" and 17.5" factory wheels are still reasonably available in yards at modest cost. I'll leave it at this, and go deeper into these and other options if you wish to hear it. Stu
 
truckdog62563 said:
Right, the F-2s used a 16" drop center wheel/rim that is one of the more perfect solutions for F-3 owners, IF the truck is a late '51 or '52 that has the 12" Bendix rear brakes. It's the '48 to early '51 guys that can't simply make this switch because the early trucks have 14" rear drums that won't clear the 16" wheels.

I'm not familiar with the Craegar wheels you mention. Assuming they are a generic custom wheel, I doubt that you'll be able to use your stock hub caps with them.....if that is a concern to you. That spare 17.5" wheel/tire, on the other hand, is also one of the better replacement options, will clear those early 14" drums, and will accept your hub caps. Both the 16" and 17.5" factory wheels are still reasonably available in yards at modest cost. I'll leave it at this, and go deeper into these and other options if you wish to hear it. Stu
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Thanks Stu..

I will have to search the options since I want to use the Hubcaps. I can get the truck home from my restoration guy on the rims I have on the truck now. Taking back roads, it's about a 10 mile trip. No sweat I'll take my chances. Then I'll park it until I can source 3 other 17.5 rims, use those with my current 17.5, and keep a 17" for a spare. Or find four 19.5" rims.


Do you think the 16" wheel is too small for the F-3 ? Meaning will it look too small for the size of the F-3?

You have been a great help thanks...

Oh btw, if you have any sources for what I need, or any suggestions, please feel free to post, email me, or call toll free, @ 800-774-7971

Thanks again..Brien
 

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A 7.50 x 16" tire is about the same 32" diameter as your 8-17.5". Your 7.50 x 17s are 34", which would be about the same as an 8-19.5". The 19.5" x 5.25" Budd #71410 wheel is the perfect tubeless replacement if you can find a set. There was a set with tires on eBay a couple weeks ago in Florida with a BIN price of $800 that went unsold. I've saved the seller info if you want to track him down. Paying $100 each or more for a bare 71410 is about right, so the $800 with tires was a fair price. Finding NOS bias ply 19.5s is a task anymore because nobody is reproducing them. This is one of my obsessions because I'm looking for a matched set of four traction tread bias 8-19.5s for my truck.

I don't have a line on any 16s or 17.5s at the moment. They do come up for sale over on the FTE forum occasionally. Tires are being reproduced for each and are available from Coker, Universal Tire, Lucas, and M. E. Miller. Stu
 
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truckdog62563 said:
A 7.50 x 16" tire is about the same 32" diameter as your 8-17.5". Your 7.50 x 17s are 34", which would be about the same as an 8-19.5". The 19.5" x 5.25" Budd #71410 wheel is the perfect tubeless replacement if you can find a set. There was a set with tires on eBay a couple weeks ago in Florida with a BIN price of $800 that went unsold. I've saved the seller info if you want to track him down. Paying $100 each or more for a bare 71410 is about right, so the $800 with tires was a fair price. Finding NOS bias ply 19.5s is a task anymore because nobody is reproducing them. This is one of my obsessions because I'm looking for a matched set of four traction tread bias 8-19.5s for my truck.

I don't have a line on any 16s or 17.5s at the moment. They do come up for sale over on the FTE forum occasionally. Tires are being reproduced for each and are available from Coker, Universal Tire, Lucas, and M. E. Miller. Stu
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Thanks again..If you can pass me the the ebay contact I would appreciate it. Also I will note what you are looking for in the 19.5" and if I see anything in my travels, you will get the lead.

The number 71410 I assume is stamped on the rim. My rims were stamped with a different # I don't recall it now since I left it in my office, but I think it was a number that began with the digit 8...but it was definitely a 5 digit #..
 
Your wheels are Budd #49380. That should be stamped on the concave side rim lip. The #71410 will be stamped on the concave side along the drop center. You'll also find a Firestone stamping on the rims, but you can ignore that. The Budd number is what matters. I'll try to link the old expired eBay listing here so you can see the wheels and get the sellers info, listing number, etc. If it doesn't work I'll come back to edit and will type it in. The listing says they are Dodge wheels, but they are Ford too. And Studebaker. One of mine came off a Dodge too. Stu

http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Budd-19-5-X-5-25-Dodge-truck-Wheels-/281054436321?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&nma=true&si=%252BMpPeJyT%252Bc%252Fz2voHZfFc4ows%252FB0%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
 
truckdog62563 said:
Your wheels are Budd #49380. That should be stamped on the concave side rim lip. The #71410 will be stamped on the concave side along the drop center. You'll also find a Firestone stamping on the rims, but you can ignore that. The Budd number is what matters. I'll try to link the old expired eBay listing here so you can see the wheels and get the sellers info, listing number, etc. If it doesn't work I'll come back to edit and will type it in. The listing says they are Dodge wheels, but they are Ford too. And Studebaker. One of mine came off a Dodge too. Stu

http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Budd-19-5-X-5-25-Dodge-truck-Wheels-/281054436321?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&nma=true&si=%252BMpPeJyT%252Bc%252Fz2voHZfFc4ows%252FB0%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
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That's it 49380 You nailed it Stu! It is stamped right where you explained b/c I remember the restoration guys explaining to me where it was located on the rim. You are the go to guy here....Many thanks again. You likely have no idea how much you have educated me in what I thought were merely "just tires"....:)

I was just cruising ebay and found a 17.5 8 lug w/ tire for $75.00 Didn't buy it but saved it anyway...Let me hit the link you provided Thanks again...

Edit: Looked up the link Nice wheels. Offered the seller full price if he includes shipping..keep you and others interested here advised...Thanks again.
 
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There are two of the 17.5s listed. One you don't want because it is Chevy with hub cap clips. Won't work for your caps, and likely has too small a center hole to clear your rear hub. The second wheel is hard to see whether it has clips or the raised nubs molded into the center disc like you need. You'd have to quiz the seller. Stu
 
Stu. The reworked wheels on my 40 tonner are 16" with the deep cleevage for mounting a radial tire and they clear the 14" drums on my tonner by a little over a 1/4" at the lip on the drum edge. Whats the difference between the later brake drums and the 14" drums on my 40? The trick in setting up the hybrid wheel is to get the rim width and backset worked out. There's not as much airflow around the drum the way my wheels are setup but being in the back that isn't a real problem. The 16" rims might look a little funny on an F3, but at least he could keep the same bolt pattern and hubcap. The other thing to evaluate is using an OEM 17" rim and machining out the center section would there be enough meat left to weld the OEM center to a modern radial rim? On mine there is a solid weld around the circumference of the center section holding it to the radial rim. If not a solid weld that could be an issue from a safety point of view.
 
truckdog62563 said:
There are two of the 17.5s listed. One you don't want because it is Chevy with hub cap clips. Won't work for your caps, and likely has too small a center hole to clear your rear hub. The second wheel is hard to see whether it has clips or the raised nubs molded into the center disc like you need. You'd have to quiz the seller. Stu
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Thanks Stu I am banking on the set you linked me to here. Otherwise I will live with what I have until I turn over the next stone..You have been a great help to me..I will share my pics when the door handles are installed and the wheels are all in place. Until then, thanks
 
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