BUBBAS IGNITION
Well-known member
Ted ,
On the tester with distributor running , as mounted on the engine i moved the plate downward to make up for the retarded timing...
Thats what i said wasnt it ???
Distributor talk.....
- Thread starter BUBBAS IGNITION
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Ted ,
On the tester with distributor running , as mounted on the engine i moved the plate downward to make up for the retarded timing...
Thats what i said wasnt it ???
BUBBAS IGNITION
Well-known member
Ted ,
Thats cool as i want to see how the KW Wilson tools functions as well.
Over the years i have owned a couple of these KW Ignition tools and sold them as they were getting pretty pricey at the meets etc.
I have taught this stuff for over thirty years and never had to teach someone from Auckland. Are you a "Maori" or a "Kiwi" ? I have a friend down the street here from New Zealand and you can call him anything but a Limey..
Looking forward to the explaination using camshaft degrees ..
FlatheadTed
Well-known member
Bubba Thats interesting ! You can see what I look like on my web site video .
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FlatheadTed
Well-known member
Yeah Manuel ,The Video is entertaining if anything .smoke and all .
Hoop
Well-known member
By the way, Harylufa's photo of his distributor fixture's degree scale is an EXCELLENT pictorial of what dual flathead points should be doing.
It's said, " a picture is worth ... ", well, you know.
For those not familiar with setting the points, you might consider saving it.
Green - Left side points closed
Yellow - Right side points closed
White - Both sides closed
Red - Both sides open
Getting the green LEFT side points to open at exactly 45 degrees (firing the plug) is determined by moving the index screw on the side of the distributor ... which also presets the initial timing to 4 degrees.
The color-coded visual on Harylufa's machine is actually better (I think) than the otherwise bullet-proof KR Wilson. Also note that he is using a multimeter with a continuity "beeper" rather than a light. Very good technique.
(Certainly there are a lot of guys who already know how to set their own points ... or think they do ... I mention this for those of us who are still learning.)
More incidentally, Harylufa should be a prime candidate for the "Miss Shelly Award" which is often directed to the guy who spreads the most BS on the Ford Barn. How about a young guy from Argentina who has extremely limited access to parts, few flathead mechanics, less instructions in Spanish, and sparce fellow Argentinian flatheaders? He presses on through half-assed advice from the states (I tried to help him time his distributor ... now his refrigerator doesn't work. My "hablo" is way weak. Harylufa's English is pretty good thankfully.)
Harylufa exhibits a tremendous enthusiasm and dedication to the hobby.
Think about it.
It's said, " a picture is worth ... ", well, you know.
For those not familiar with setting the points, you might consider saving it.
Green - Left side points closed
Yellow - Right side points closed
White - Both sides closed
Red - Both sides open
Getting the green LEFT side points to open at exactly 45 degrees (firing the plug) is determined by moving the index screw on the side of the distributor ... which also presets the initial timing to 4 degrees.
The color-coded visual on Harylufa's machine is actually better (I think) than the otherwise bullet-proof KR Wilson. Also note that he is using a multimeter with a continuity "beeper" rather than a light. Very good technique.
(Certainly there are a lot of guys who already know how to set their own points ... or think they do
... I mention this for those of us who are still learning.)More incidentally, Harylufa should be a prime candidate for the "Miss Shelly Award" which is often directed to the guy who spreads the most BS on the Ford Barn
. How about a young guy from Argentina who has extremely limited access to parts, few flathead mechanics, less instructions in Spanish, and sparce fellow Argentinian flatheaders? He presses on through half-assed advice from the states (I tried to help him time his distributor ... now his refrigerator doesn't work. My "hablo" is way weak. Harylufa's English is pretty good thankfully.)Harylufa exhibits a tremendous enthusiasm and dedication to the hobby.
Think about it.
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Harylufa
Senior Member
Dear Hoop!
When you told me how to calibrate my dist with this manual method I understand it perfectly and dist was installed in my engine.
Results: perfect start, on the road with better power etc.
As I mentioned before I knew a technician about 66 years old that has a strobe machine, I said "i am lucky" he took some old manual hidden between old books ( not much interest). He looked for an old dist adapter because he tastes actual electronic dist. He did the test I was not allowed to see how (?)
That is why I attach these pics showing the final result being tested in a strobe machine. I installed the dist in engine and it seemed be alright, Today, today am going to verify and timing etc with another measurement instrument that I not have.
So, i investigated that I could need a timing light and another(igniscopio) I bought a book called Engine tuning (Afinacion de motores) and another Tuning American engine (Afinacion de mototres Americanos).
As you can see am not yet completely calm, I insist, am 37 years old and if I can not repair my car minimally I think I will sell it one day and buy a new one. Here in my Country have a phrase that I hate "Walked, ready, leave it" I hate this.
Well. Hoop thanks for your words, perhaps not "Miss Shelly Award" yes "Mr December" jaja. I think in Fordbarn people have good intention in sharing things.
Thank very much for posting interesting knowledge.
Hary
When you told me how to calibrate my dist with this manual method I understand it perfectly and dist was installed in my engine.
Results: perfect start, on the road with better power etc.
As I mentioned before I knew a technician about 66 years old that has a strobe machine, I said "i am lucky" he took some old manual hidden between old books ( not much interest). He looked for an old dist adapter because he tastes actual electronic dist. He did the test I was not allowed to see how (?)
That is why I attach these pics showing the final result being tested in a strobe machine. I installed the dist in engine and it seemed be alright, Today, today am going to verify and timing etc with another measurement instrument that I not have.
So, i investigated that I could need a timing light and another(igniscopio) I bought a book called Engine tuning (Afinacion de motores) and another Tuning American engine (Afinacion de mototres Americanos).
As you can see am not yet completely calm, I insist, am 37 years old and if I can not repair my car minimally I think I will sell it one day and buy a new one. Here in my Country have a phrase that I hate "Walked, ready, leave it" I hate this.
Well. Hoop thanks for your words, perhaps not "Miss Shelly Award" yes "Mr December" jaja. I think in Fordbarn people have good intention in sharing things.
Thank very much for posting interesting knowledge.
Hary
I must admit that I am "in the weeds over my head" in the post but can I interpret this statement ......"Just for grins i checked four of these today before wrapping for shipment with a feeler gauge . They checked very close to .011 on each set of contacts ! Using my Motor manual with a spec of .014 to .016 using a feeler gauge on the bench the timing would be ok to run but still be off quite a bit.. to mean that if I set my crab dist at .011 on both sides that is better starting point than the manual spec?
1937pickup
Well-known member
Now I know why we have computer controlled engines-much simpler than dual points,LOL.
BUBBAS IGNITION
Well-known member
actually if you set them at .015 and ran them for a few miles they would more than likely settle in at approx .011.
One of the things we do is lube the cam and contact arms ( actually to the point of over lube), we also soak the napa contacts in marvel before installing to help the lube issue as well. The fiber will absorb some of the oil etc.
When i first started doing these i noticed some return with a note that the unit ran well for a few trips and then dropped performance . In most cases the contacts had closed up and required a readjustment.
Now we lube and run them in on a test unit at 3000 rpm for a few minutes allowing them to settle in , readjust before shipping etc....
FlatheadTed
Well-known member
Heres a copy of the KR Wilson instructions ,They are far more complicated than the average Joe needs to know ,( I will try and get a better picture up)The photo it a shot of the first timing sequence 2 deg BTDC (cam) I agree with Hoop the KR is near bullet proof .The unit in the picture is not a KR but does function the same .
Attachments
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Hoop
Well-known member
A couple of added notes:
1. The KR Wilson instructions are some of the worst you will ever run into as Ted will tell you.
There are three steps to using the KR Wilson. (A) Set the left points to 22 1/2, (B) adjust the index to have the left points break/open at the "Firing mark" or "Master Mark", then, (C) Set the right side points to 22 1/2.
I advise 22 1/2 on the right side because it's easy to remember both sides being the same. It'll give a slight touch more dwell, and that's not bad.
2. Frequent point adjustment should be expected. As Bubba says, the gap changes as you drive. No set up, whether manual or with a strober, will "go for years with no problems."
3. If I had a service station "back in the day," I'd doggone sure have a Sun Distributor Tester. The greatest Dog and Pony show a gas station could own.
Here's one of my latest acquisitions ... you can watch the spark plugs fire as well as the rotor and points.
Sorta like:
"Only one thing in the world could've dragged me away from the soft glow of electric sex gleaming in the window."
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1. The KR Wilson instructions are some of the worst you will ever run into as Ted will tell you.
There are three steps to using the KR Wilson. (A) Set the left points to 22 1/2, (B) adjust the index to have the left points break/open at the "Firing mark" or "Master Mark", then, (C) Set the right side points to 22 1/2.
I advise 22 1/2 on the right side because it's easy to remember both sides being the same. It'll give a slight touch more dwell, and that's not bad.
2. Frequent point adjustment should be expected. As Bubba says, the gap changes as you drive. No set up, whether manual or with a strober, will "go for years with no problems."
3. If I had a service station "back in the day," I'd doggone sure have a Sun Distributor Tester. The greatest Dog and Pony show a gas station could own.
Here's one of my latest acquisitions ... you can watch the spark plugs fire as well as the rotor and points.
Sorta like:
"Only one thing in the world could've dragged me away from the soft glow of electric sex gleaming in the window."
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
FlatheadTed
Well-known member
The KR instructions do state that left and right should set at 22.1/2 of cam travel this is a total of 45 but because you get a over lap when one is opening and one closing of 10 deg ,dwell is reduced to 35 degrees thats over all .some builders add a little more for a hotter spark.of course dwell being the time the point's are closed .
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Hoop
Well-known member
"The KR instructions do state that left and right should set at 22.1/2 of cam travel this is a total of 45 but because you get a over lap when one is opening and one closing of 10 deg ,dwell is reduced to 35 degrees thats over all .some builders add a little more for a hotter spark."
Ted, you are right. It says that ... and then goes on to say, "Due to various factors, the Dwell of the R.H. Points may vary one or two degrees, the IMPORTANT ADJUSTMENT is to make them close at exactly the right time."
The "right time" according to KRW is 10 degrees after firing. From experience 22 1/2 degrees often gives you a 9 degree close resulting in 36 degrees of total dwell.
The Ford spec calls for 80% total dwell ... 80% of 45 degrees is 36 degrees.
Somebody's math is wrong. KRW's 10 degrees leaves you with 77.7% dwell @ 35 degrees.
(The only advice omitted from the KR Wilson instructions is whether you should hold your tongue in the right corner of your mouth as you're adjusting the points, or in the left.)
Ted, you are right. It says that ... and then goes on to say, "Due to various factors, the Dwell of the R.H. Points may vary one or two degrees, the IMPORTANT ADJUSTMENT is to make them close at exactly the right time."
The "right time" according to KRW is 10 degrees after firing. From experience 22 1/2 degrees often gives you a 9 degree close resulting in 36 degrees of total dwell.
The Ford spec calls for 80% total dwell ... 80% of 45 degrees is 36 degrees.
Somebody's math is wrong. KRW's 10 degrees leaves you with 77.7% dwell @ 35 degrees.
(The only advice omitted from the KR Wilson instructions is whether you should hold your tongue in the right corner of your mouth as you're adjusting the points, or in the left.)
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FlatheadTed
Well-known member
I agree, a fine point , .I have been wrenching on these Flatheads for 52 years and I have found in the over all scheme of things some things are not that important . points set at 15 ,My tests show If you set your points at say 15 th and they ware down to 11 at that point they are well out of adjustment, Napa ones any way! .I did say that a 8BA would only give you about 32 depending on what points you use ,My current tests show up to 35 degrees, and thats ideal .I think I will leave it there ,
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Harylufa
Senior Member
Dear Friends!
I have some news, the technician gave me a(resistor) to install between coil and the start button, I attach pic. This is to avoid damage the contacts points he said.
Remember that my car is 12V not 6v. This resistor is 16 ohm. He told me to install the dist and resistor, but I install the dist and my engine begun rising temperature. So, I did something I borrow a light timing to see if the dist is in correct timing.
What happened!
"I started the engine after have connected the light timing and I noticed engine was 28º of advance in a idle 250 rpm. AGAIN, this is not the dist that I set taught by Hoop method, please do not get confused".
My question is this right? If I install my real dist set as Hoop method says, what is he real advance or degree being in idle or regulating at 500 rpm as manual says?.
What about resistor? Must I installed being my engine al 12V?
I hope be clear, thanks for reading
Hary
I have some news, the technician gave me a(resistor) to install between coil and the start button, I attach pic. This is to avoid damage the contacts points he said.
Remember that my car is 12V not 6v. This resistor is 16 ohm. He told me to install the dist and resistor, but I install the dist and my engine begun rising temperature. So, I did something I borrow a light timing to see if the dist is in correct timing.
What happened!
"I started the engine after have connected the light timing and I noticed engine was 28º of advance in a idle 250 rpm. AGAIN, this is not the dist that I set taught by Hoop method, please do not get confused".
My question is this right? If I install my real dist set as Hoop method says, what is he real advance or degree being in idle or regulating at 500 rpm as manual says?.
What about resistor? Must I installed being my engine al 12V?
I hope be clear, thanks for reading
Hary
Attachments
BUBBAS IGNITION
Well-known member
Harry,
I think the resistor is actually 1.6 ohm .......which would be ok on a 12 volt system.....
28 degrees at idle would be what too high cant imagine how you could get to that point...
Tell us how you are measuring this ???
FlatheadTed
Well-known member
You may get hard starting ,I think Some cars that had that resistor had a key by pass for starting ?,Bubba would know .
Harylufa
Senior Member
Bubba!
I connected the light timing. This is how I measured the 28ª with technician dist calibrated, this gave me a 0,018" contact gap.
I insist, this is the technician method in his strobe machine.
As I told you before is hard to find a technician who knows deeply how to calibrate. what I wrote above is a real proof of this. Setting dist with strobe machine versus manual strobe.
Here is the proof where Hoop said
"Your manual machine and a strobe distributor machine should be approximately the same. If there is a big difference, then it must be one of the machines ... or the operator".
Ted!
"You are right my engine had a hard starting"
I need to compare both ways to learn deeply
Please keep in touch.
Hary
ajmac
Member
According to my Loyd manual the resistor is bypassed when the starter is in operation to give a better spark, then once the starter is off the power to the coil goes via the resistor again to drop the voltage to that required by the coil for continous operation.
I have a borrowed timing fixture that I used to setup my Crab unit:
I have a borrowed timing fixture that I used to setup my Crab unit: