submerged up to the plugs
- Thread starter cars56
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BRENT in 10-uh-C
Well-known member
I am assuming this is the results of Sandy?
I would start by draining all fluids and in the mechanical areas such as engine, transmission, rear end, etc., I would flush with a solvent (such as Kerosene) until you are certain all foreign debris has been flushed. Remember there is a dipper tray in the oil pan that likely has floated away the oil. It might be prudent to remove the oil pan to gain access to survey damage.
I would venture a guess that the acid in the battery has been floated away too but maybe not if it is a sealed unit. Once you are certain the mechanical components are flushed, then refill with proper lubes. Any bare areas on the vehicle can be sprayed with Phosphoric acid first to stop the rusting and then wiped clean followed by a spray penetrating oil. Flush the gasoline from the tank and drain the carburetor & sediment bulb, and refill with fresh fuel. It is very possible the muffler is still retaining water so you may need to remove and drain prior to trying to start the engine. Then I would clean the ignition system components and lube everything you can find that will accept oil. Start the engine and allow the heat to burn off any condensation.
In the perfect world you really need to dismantle as many sub-components as possible to clean those hidden surfaces and to remove the corrosion. Good luck with this phase of your life as many of us here have deep sympathy for what y'all went through!!
I would start by draining all fluids and in the mechanical areas such as engine, transmission, rear end, etc., I would flush with a solvent (such as Kerosene) until you are certain all foreign debris has been flushed. Remember there is a dipper tray in the oil pan that likely has floated away the oil. It might be prudent to remove the oil pan to gain access to survey damage.
I would venture a guess that the acid in the battery has been floated away too but maybe not if it is a sealed unit. Once you are certain the mechanical components are flushed, then refill with proper lubes. Any bare areas on the vehicle can be sprayed with Phosphoric acid first to stop the rusting and then wiped clean followed by a spray penetrating oil. Flush the gasoline from the tank and drain the carburetor & sediment bulb, and refill with fresh fuel. It is very possible the muffler is still retaining water so you may need to remove and drain prior to trying to start the engine. Then I would clean the ignition system components and lube everything you can find that will accept oil. Start the engine and allow the heat to burn off any condensation.
In the perfect world you really need to dismantle as many sub-components as possible to clean those hidden surfaces and to remove the corrosion. Good luck with this phase of your life as many of us here have deep sympathy for what y'all went through!!
BRENT in 10-uh-C
Well-known member
Yes, or leave the plugs in temporarily until it is full and then flush. For example, the transmission has a vent up in the shift tower that I'm sure the water entered into the trans case. Short of pulling the shift tower off, the most you will be able to fill it is to the upper filler plug. The same with the engine as I am sure it entered around the distributer housing and filled the crankcase up to that level. You may even want to remove the valve chamber cover just to flush that area too.
In 1965 we had a major flood in Denver.
In addition to what Brent said we found that water and sand gets inside the valve chamber ... behind the plate on carb side of engine.
You might get lucky if the water was fairly clean and free of silt.
We found some engines that had dirt and sand plugging the oil feed tubes to the main bearings and camshaft bearings in the bottom of the valve chamber.
If the holes were not plugged there was fine silt from the water that got inside of every part of the engine. The oil floats to the top of the water and silt finds its way to the bottom.
The only fix we found was to remove crankshaft and camshaft to make sure all the sand was removed from the feed holes, main / rod bearings.
In addition to what Brent said we found that water and sand gets inside the valve chamber ... behind the plate on carb side of engine.
You might get lucky if the water was fairly clean and free of silt.
We found some engines that had dirt and sand plugging the oil feed tubes to the main bearings and camshaft bearings in the bottom of the valve chamber.
If the holes were not plugged there was fine silt from the water that got inside of every part of the engine. The oil floats to the top of the water and silt finds its way to the bottom.
The only fix we found was to remove crankshaft and camshaft to make sure all the sand was removed from the feed holes, main / rod bearings.
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Keith True
Well-known member
I've worked on a couple of drowned A's,and on dozens of cars drowned in salt water.(Remember the blizzard of 78?)I don't know what stage your car is at,but if you have any interior,take it out NOW.The headliner won't be a problem,but the seats,door panels and cowl panels need to come out.They can be dried out with little to no smell if you get to it soon enough.You also need to be blowing out all the nooks and crannies,such as the lower cowl.In theory there is sand and grit in all water,so according to that the whole engine,trans,and rear end should come apart and overhauled.In reality just flush until everything looks clean and go.Pop the valve cover off too and make sure no water is stored up in there.Same with the starter and generator.Diesel fuel is fine to use too,it is just a little heavier than kerosene and may be easier to come by for some people.You really need to do this ASAP,as salt water works fast.You need to be getting the car started and driving around.If you wait the clutch fingers will stick,the disc will stick,the pedals,brakes,kingpins,etc.will all hang up if left for any time at all.If you can get it running,grease it and drive it,the heat and activity will go a long ways to preserving it.
Tom Wesenberg
Well-known member
I've had to save a few cars that were submerged in a lake, a pond, and a river. Water and sediment gets everywhere. These were newer cars, which are often an automatic insurance write off. It's important to get to work on it right away. Don't wait for some insurance settlement. Take pictures of what you do to show the insurance guys. They should understand that the sooner you get to work, the better it is for both of you. I'd remove the seats and any upholstery that is easy to remove, like door panels and kick panels. Spray warm water on all the wet fabric and wood to rinse out as much salt as possible. Remove floorboard screws before they start to rust in place, and clean and dry them. Spray warm clean water on the wood blocks and frame welting to rinse out as much salt as possible. You want everything rinsed, cleaned and dried ASAP.
As Brent mentioned, you want to drain all fluids ASAP and flush with kerosene. Drop the oil pan and side cover and clean and oil the inisdes ASAP. Repack the front wheel bearings and coat all spindle and hub surfaces as well as packing the bearings with a good grease such as Mystik JT-6 High Temp. I'd pull and repack the rear wheel bearings also. If any salt water got inside the battery, you might get by with draining it and replacing the acid with the correct mix. Remove the spark plus and spin the engine over to expell any water. This is where a 12 volt battery will help to spin it faster. Then oil the cylinders and spin it some more. If you can't run the engine for a few days, I'd hand crank it to keep the parts oiled and free.
The most important thing is to get rid of the salt water ASAP and get all the parts dry and clean or oiled. If you car had a nice paint job on the undercarriage, I'd spray everything with ATF, so it gets into all the seams and hidden areas. You can always come back later and wipe off any oil you don't want on the surfaces. My 28 Phaeton has very little paint on the bottom side, and 3 days ago I ran it up on car ramps and used a syphon sprayer with my air compressor to spray ATF all over the undercarriage. Less than a quart covered it. This will help protect it from any further rust until I get around to painting it.
Post pictures and let us know how it's going. This is one job where HASTE does NOT make waste.
As Brent mentioned, you want to drain all fluids ASAP and flush with kerosene. Drop the oil pan and side cover and clean and oil the inisdes ASAP. Repack the front wheel bearings and coat all spindle and hub surfaces as well as packing the bearings with a good grease such as Mystik JT-6 High Temp. I'd pull and repack the rear wheel bearings also. If any salt water got inside the battery, you might get by with draining it and replacing the acid with the correct mix. Remove the spark plus and spin the engine over to expell any water. This is where a 12 volt battery will help to spin it faster. Then oil the cylinders and spin it some more. If you can't run the engine for a few days, I'd hand crank it to keep the parts oiled and free.
The most important thing is to get rid of the salt water ASAP and get all the parts dry and clean or oiled. If you car had a nice paint job on the undercarriage, I'd spray everything with ATF, so it gets into all the seams and hidden areas. You can always come back later and wipe off any oil you don't want on the surfaces. My 28 Phaeton has very little paint on the bottom side, and 3 days ago I ran it up on car ramps and used a syphon sprayer with my air compressor to spray ATF all over the undercarriage. Less than a quart covered it. This will help protect it from any further rust until I get around to painting it.
Post pictures and let us know how it's going. This is one job where HASTE does NOT make waste.
Al 29Tudor
Well-known member
I would also flush ALL the body seams, cracks and crevices, brakes, joints, clevises and surfaces to remove salt. I had a boat the submerged the starter, generator and engine. I flushed everything with fresh water and dried them all out, drained the engine twice and refilled it. All was well. The salt must be removed or it will keep attracting moisture.
Al
Al
I'm guessing you have insur. and with water, up to the plugs I would say the car is totaled, I would give it to the insur. co. take a ck. and buy another A,.... In 3 or 4 years that car is going to have to many problems [elect., rust etc.] If it were me I would get rid of it as soon as possible, no way to save it. JMO.
cars56 Good luck to you Man.
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1931 flamingo
Well-known member
Whole bunch of cars (new, used, antiques, etc) affected by Sandy.
Paul in CT
Paul in CT
Terry NJ
Well-known member
Now for different take! Back in the day, I lost a 18' Chris Craft mahogany speed boat. I had to pull it of bottom of a lake (Freshwater). I was contemplating all the horrors that have been mentioned, water intrusion into all nooks and crannies, and machinery. Fortunately, It went down in only about 6-7' of water. I used tires to "crib" it off the bottom. I finally got it to break the surface and get it high enough to pump and got it to float. The first thing I checked was the battery, I turned on the pump.. and it worked! Got her pumped and checked the engine, A 6 cyl 105 Hercules, Flathead, w/ updraft carb. Nothing! The oil was at the right level, everything was fine! The gearbox was a Paragon reverse gear. There didn't seem to be a vent, or I couldn't find it. I started the engine and it ran fine. Even the gas wasn't contaminated. Nevertheless, I changed the oil and drained the gas tank, but it seemed unnecessary.
But... It was freshwater, not salt or even brackish
The Seats were covered in vinyl, not cloth.
I believe the fact that the engine was a flathead helped to save it. Ditto for the updraft carb. and it was protected from sand by the hull.
I can't account for why the water didn't get into the engine oil or battery.
I still feel that there was some lucky mojo going on, but I tell you this little tale to give you hope that all is not lost. Just flush and get much salt out as you can as soon as possible.
Terry
But... It was freshwater, not salt or even brackish
The Seats were covered in vinyl, not cloth.
I believe the fact that the engine was a flathead helped to save it. Ditto for the updraft carb. and it was protected from sand by the hull.
I can't account for why the water didn't get into the engine oil or battery.
I still feel that there was some lucky mojo going on, but I tell you this little tale to give you hope that all is not lost. Just flush and get much salt out as you can as soon as possible.
Terry
Tom Wesenberg
Well-known member
Similar story to Terry's. In the mid 80's I bought a 1929 Chevy chassis that was converted to a small tractor by using a Model TT worm drive and wheels. The engine had some white stuff all over it, so I asked if it sat next to a cement plant. The owner said the swamp flooded and the motor sat underwater for several months. When I got it home I pulled the drain plug and drained out about 5 gallons of water, then some black oil. When I pulled the pan everything inside was shiney clean, protected by the old thick black oil. I never would have believed it if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes.
Bruce Adams
Well-known member
Hi
Sorry for your loss !
There are a number of guys from Model A Ford Club of Long Island who would be pleased to help you out. Many from Queens.
MAFC L I site is http://www.freewebs.com/modela/
The web master owns a repair shop and I am sure you will be assisted if you hook up with the local club.
Bruce Adams
VP Activities MAFC L I
Jim Brierley
Well-known member
cars56, I feel for you. Being a Bonneville racer I know what salt can do, not pretty. The above suggestions are all good but the bottom line in my opinion is that the car needs to come completely apart ASAP. Salt will go places you can't even imagine! I would try and get the insurance company to write it off, then if you're up to it, give it a complete restoration. Good luck!
